What to do about DNP and flu shot?

PollywogNP, ADN, BSN, MSN, LPN, NP · Feb 1, 2020

Not all DNPs are Nurse Practitioners. DNP is the degree. OP, are you planning on becoming an Advanced Practice RN? If so, what specialty?

K. Everly, BSN, RN · Feb 1, 2020

Wow. The barrage of assaults on your intellect and personal choice is astounding to me. You aren’t any less of a competent person who believes in nursing just because you don’t want a flu vaccine.

Personally, while I take the flu vaccine out of obligation, I would rather not as my husband had a documented adverse reaction to a flu vaccination. The adverse reaction (Transverse Myelitis) caused him to have significant hemiparesis and could have cost him his ability to use his entire right side of his body. He was lucky to recover about 90% because many people do not. He was on strong steroids for quite some time and in the neuro ICU for 8 days.

The flu vaccination does not have nearly the empirical research to support it as other vaccines based on the fact that they never know which strain will manifest in the population each year. That’s just the reality.

I really don’t know if you could continue on to get your DNP without the flu vaccine, but honestly, if you actually want to be a nurse and not in business and you can’t go on to get a DNP, would that be a deal breaker for you? You could have a great career as an MSN RN and find a job that either allows you to wear a mask or become a nurse entrepreneur. If your heart is in nursing I don’t see why you should leave it based on not being able to get a terminal degree in it. If you can get some type of waiver, all the better.

Nurse Trini · Feb 1, 2020

In fact, you may have to get out of any facility with patients. Even when I worked in an office job at Hopkins where I never even went into a building with patients as part of my daily activities, I had to maintain my shots and TB testing and the like.

allnurses Guide · Feb 1, 2020

10 hours ago, KatEverly said:
Wow. The barrage of assaults on your intellect and personal choice is astounding to me. You aren’t any less of a competent person who believes in nursing just because you don’t want a flu vaccine.
Personally, while I take the flu vaccine out of obligation, I would rather not as my husband had a documented adverse reaction to a flu vaccination. The adverse reaction (Transverse Myelitis) caused him to have significant hemiparesis and could have cost him his ability to use his entire right side of his body. He was lucky to recover about 90% because many people do not. He was on strong steroids for quite some time and in the neuro ICU for 8 days.
The flu vaccination does not have nearly the empirical research to support it as other vaccines based on the fact that they never know which strain will manifest in the population each year. That’s just the reality.
I really don’t know if you could continue on to get your DNP without the flu vaccine, but honestly, if you actually want to be a nurse and not in business and you can’t go on to get a DNP, would that be a deal breaker for you? You could have a great career as an MSN RN and find a job that either allows you to wear a mask or become a nurse entrepreneur. If your heart is in nursing I don’t see why you should leave it based on not being able to get a terminal degree in it. If you can get some type of waiver, all the better.

If you are in the healthcare field and you blatantly disagree with scientific consensus based on your "personal" opinion then intellect and competence is open to criticism, especially when considering a role of a nurse administrator or educator/clinical expert.

As you mentioned, transverse myelitis is quite rare (around 5 cases per million) but 60% of patients do not have longstanding disability. It has been temporally associated with other vaccines historically thought there are only a few case studies following influenza vaccination (perhaps your husband is one). If truly vaccine-caused and not just associated, we would be looking at at a rate of 1 case per billion or more vaccines. The rate of ATM following the vaccine-prevented illness is significantly higher.

To say that influenza vaccination hasn't been duly researched is more than a stretch; while degree of vaccine efficacy might be debated, the overall efficacy and safety has been demonstrated ad nauseam.

allnurses Guide · Feb 1, 2020

13 hours ago, Megarline said:
I would check the mortality without a flu shot first then compare it to having some.?

Of the 180 kids that died of flu last year, 80% were unvaccinated.

Emergent, RN · Feb 1, 2020

There are a lot of intelligent, dedicated nurses, who are not the dreadful 'Antivaxers', who don't want to be required to get a flu shot.

The difference with the flu shot is that you need to get one every year. It's something that is formulated differently every year. It doesn't give you permanent immunity like other vaccines, that are researched for years and years prior to being given to the public.

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will. I happen to think that the Pharmaceuticals industry is hand-in-hand with governments in requiring this in so many places. I haven't gotten a flu vaccine in years, nor have I gotten the flu, in spite of being exposed over and over again in the emergency room. I have acquired an immunity to the flu, which I had three times, pretty bad cases of, in my twenties.

If my next job requires a flu vaccine I will get it because I don't want to wear a mask, but I object to an outside entity taking away my right to make this decision for myself.

As far as I'm concerned, if one is immunocompromised, one should be wearing a mask themselves. Every time this person goes in public, they should be wearing a mask. It's just common sense. When they are in the hospital, we need to how to reverse isolation and require all staff to wear masks in the room.

Also, hospitals should be very well prepared to cover shifts when nurses are sick. Too many nurses come to work when they are ill. The same hospitals that are requiring flu vaccines put pressure on nurses to come to work even if they're sick. That is the height of hypocrisy.

Editorial Team / Admin · Feb 1, 2020

8 minutes ago, Emergent said:
I object to an outside entity taking away my right to make this decision for myself

Your right to make the decision isn't being taken away by any outside entity. It's not like you're forced to work there.

KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN · Feb 1, 2020

On 2/1/2020 at 11:27 AM, Emergent said:
There are a lot of intelligent, dedicated nurses, who are not the dreadful 'Antivaxers', who don't want to be required to get a flu shot.

The pinnacle of hypocrisy for me is that so many of those nurses who "just do not want" to be required to get a flu shot under various pseudoscientific premises faithfully follow to the last point idiotic policies and schmolicies clearly devised by someone who never left the Big Ivory Tower of so-called "leadership".

Anyway, the thing is, there is quite a lot of evidence that flu shots, population-wise, save lives. Living in civilized First World society means following rules that are beneficial for society as evidenced by scientific research. One may not "believe" that tobacco smoking is harmful for health or may "not want" to "be forced" to use a seatbelt, bit if he smokes in protected public place or get caught driving unrestrained, there will be consequences and no way to escape them by demonstrating "honest beliefs" and other wishings and wantings.

Nobody is forced to work anywhere in this country under ordinary circumstances. The OP can move in an independent state, open her own clinic and start to grab big $$$$ while being her own boss and making her own rules for her own workplace, including flu or any other vaccine to be banned from there forever. Counting that most antivaxxers are from White middle to upper middle class with above median level of income, she's gonna have waiting room full soon enough. She can ever get naturopathy certification to make it all more profitable. Nobody can prohibit her from doing that, with DNP or without it.

P.S. there were several cases of NPs sued by families of patients who died from preventable diseases after those NPs washed their brains with antivaxx propaganda.

Orion81RN · Feb 1, 2020

On 2/1/2020 at 11:27 AM, Emergent said:
There are a lot of intelligent, dedicated nurses, who are not the dreadful 'Antivaxers', who don't want to be required to get a flu shot.
The difference with the flu shot is that you need to get one every year. It's something that is formulated differently every year. It doesn't give you permanent immunity like other vaccines, that are researched for years and years prior to being given to the public.
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will. I happen to think that the Pharmaceuticals industry is hand-in-hand with governments in requiring this in so many places. I haven't gotten a flu vaccine in years, nor have I gotten the flu, in spite of being exposed over and over again in the emergency room. I have acquired an immunity to the flu, which I had three times, pretty bad cases of, in my twenties.
If my next job requires a flu vaccine I will get it because I don't want to wear a mask, but I object to an outside entity taking away my right to make this decision for myself.
As far as I'm concerned, if one is immunocompromised, one should be wearing a mask themselves. Every time this person goes in public, they should be wearing a mask. It's just common sense. When they are in the hospital, we need to how to reverse isolation and require all staff to wear masks in the room.
Also, hospitals should be very well prepared to cover shifts when nurses are sick. Too many nurses come to work when they are ill. The same hospitals that are requiring flu vaccines put pressure on nurses to come to work even if they're sick. That is the height of hypocrisy.

There is a huge difference between a nurse who doesn't want the flu vaccine yet gets it anyway due to career consequences, and someone willing to give up their career over it. One is reasonable. One is not. Forgoing a whole degree due to "beliefs" of the flu shot is irrational.

**LibraSunCNM, BSN, MSN, CNM** · Feb 1, 2020

On 2/1/2020 at 11:27 AM, Emergent said:
There are a lot of intelligent, dedicated nurses, who are not the dreadful 'Antivaxers', who don't want to be required to get a flu shot.
The difference with the flu shot is that you need to get one every year. It's something that is formulated differently every year. It doesn't give you permanent immunity like other vaccines, that are researched for years and years prior to being given to the public.
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will. I happen to think that the Pharmaceuticals industry is hand-in-hand with governments in requiring this in so many places. I haven't gotten a flu vaccine in years, nor have I gotten the flu, in spite of being exposed over and over again in the emergency room. I have acquired an immunity to the flu, which I had three times, pretty bad cases of, in my twenties.
If my next job requires a flu vaccine I will get it because I don't want to wear a mask, but I object to an outside entity taking away my right to make this decision for myself.
As far as I'm concerned, if one is immunocompromised, one should be wearing a mask themselves. Every time this person goes in public, they should be wearing a mask. It's just common sense. When they are in the hospital, we need to how to reverse isolation and require all staff to wear masks in the room.
Also, hospitals should be very well prepared to cover shifts when nurses are sick. Too many nurses come to work when they are ill. The same hospitals that are requiring flu vaccines put pressure on nurses to come to work even if they're sick. That is the height of hypocrisy.

While I disagree with your conspiracy theories, the fact that you state you'd still get the vaccine if your job required it shows me you are rational and have common sense. The difference between that and the OP's position, that they went all the way through an MSN, are considering a DNP, but would still ditch the whole career all together to avoid getting a flu vaccine, is stark. That is not a rational thought process and anyone who feels that way will not make it in health care. Just my two cents.

SummitRN, BSN, RN · Feb 1, 2020

1 hour ago, Emergent said:
The difference with the flu shot is that you need to get one every year. It's something that is formulated differently every year. It doesn't give you permanent immunity like other vaccines, that are researched for years and years prior to being given to the public.
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will. I happen to think that the Pharmaceuticals industry is hand-in-hand with governments in requiring this in so many places. I haven't gotten a flu vaccine in years, nor have I gotten the flu, in spite of being exposed over and over again in the emergency room. I have acquired an immunity to the flu, which I had three times, pretty bad cases of, in my twenties.

OK... I'll call you someone who naturally relates to conspiracy thinking to fill gaps in your knowledge which are apparently large on the subject of flu vaccines based on what you said there.

Megan1977, MSN, EdD, RN · Feb 1, 2020

On 1/29/2020 at 6:54 PM, LovingLife123 said:
Career change. It should not be possible to get a masters or doctorate in nursing and not believe in the flu shot.

This ^^^^100%