What to do about DNP and flu shot?

Nurses General Nursing

Updated:   Published

I am finishing my MSN soon, and had thought that I would get my DNP. However, I am second guessing this after a big ordeal from my school about me not taking a flu shot. My hospital does not require it if I wear a mask. I hate to put the time and money into getting a DNP, and at some point be required to take a flu shot to work in nursing. I WILL NOT. I will change careers. I’m not looking for pro flu shot comments here. However, I am looking for advice and useful information on what you think the future holds in this matter. I also have an MBA, and can just as easily go into a DBA program.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Pediatric Float, PICU, NICU.
11 hours ago, Dachshundmom said:

This month, my hospital is recognizing me because I paid for the cremation of a young woman in her 20's because her mother was so distraught at the thought of her daughter lying in the hospital morgue for days, weeks, or months with no way to pay for cremation or burial. I've handed $500 checks out to more patients and co-workers than I can count in my time as a nurse because there was a need, and I could fulfill it.

Oh my...can we start another thread on how completely inappropriate this is and the number of professional boundaries it crosses?

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Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
1 minute ago, JadedCPN said:

Oh my...can we start another thread on how completely inappropriate this is and the number of professional boundaries it crosses?

Please do! in the facility where I work (psych) we see a number of indigent folks and we have programs where staff can donate clothing, food and even money to help them out. Still all donations are given to the hospital and are from the hospital. No individual recognition is given to the person donating.

Hppy

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Specializes in Dialysis.
2 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:

Please do! in the facility where I work (psych) we see a number of indigent folks and we have programs where staff can donate clothing, food and even money to help them out. Still all donations are given to the hospital and are from the hospital. No individual recognition is given to the person donating.

Hppy

As it should be

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Specializes in Perioperative Nurse.

I agree with your thoughts that if you stay in nursing especially school you would be required to have a flu shot. You obviously have strong feelings so you may be able to offer your talents and education in a setting that would not require a flu shot. I cannot think of any at the moment. You feel the way that you do for a reason. No one is going to change your mind. I wish only the best for you!

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Specializes in CVICU, MICU, Burn ICU.
14 hours ago, Dachshundmom said:

I am the OP, and quite honestly, I was flying home from vacation when I placed the original post, and have been extremely busy since I have been home. There are a few people whom I need to reply to on here because of their courtesy. Yet, many of these comments have been rude, and did not provide me with the requested information, so no response is necessary. I have been an RN 17 years this month. I started as an ASN, then got a Bachelor's in Healthcare Management, then an MBA. I decided at my age, I should get a BSN due to the push for BSNs, and I am now finishing an MSN program. I have plans to get a DNP, but not a nurse practitioner like everyone has automatically assumed. The DNP would have a leadership or educational focus. I have no desire to be a nurse practitioner. So, I am fairly educated, know how to read research, and how to see who pays for the research, and who benefits from the research, oftentimes. I believe vaccines when created years ago were good, and had great benefit. I've had vaccines in my past; I may have some in my future; the flu vaccine is not one of them.

I do not remember if you (and I don't have time to look back through them right now) were one of those that posted that I should not be a nurse, and that I needed to leave the profession. However, if others read this, I'll say that is very hurtful and uncalled for in the context that they wrote it. I did ask for advice, and if that advice was to leave because they did not foresee a way around the flu shot requirements, and that it was only going to get worse, that is a reasonable response. However, to tell me to leave the profession because I do not believe like they do, and am not willing to have someone tell me that I will inject something into my body is a different story. This month, my hospital is recognizing me because I paid for the cremation of a young woman in her 20's because her mother was so distraught at the thought of her daughter lying in the hospital morgue for days, weeks, or months with no way to pay for cremation or burial. I've handed $500 checks out to more patients and co-workers than I can count in my time as a nurse because there was a need, and I could fulfill it. I'm a very detail oriented person and nurse. I believe I have provided better care than many nurses that I have worked with in my 17 years. So, to read the comments of those with snide remarks has been hurtful. They do not know me or the work that I do. I also wonder how many of them have sent a text while driving, or have possibly driven after having a drink. They're putting others' lives at risk with that behavior, too. Well enough with this, I have to get back to the class I am working on, because I have a DNP to go after.

Thank you for sharing your background, as your initial posting was unclear and it seemed that you were not yet a practicing nurse. I think part of the confusion is that the flu shot issue seems to be just now becoming a concern for you -- perhaps it has not been required by your institution for practice, but it is now required for your DNP program? Regardless, while I have not said that you should not be a nurse, I do think it's reasonable to expect you to have a strategy for dealing with the tension between your personal feelings about the flu shot and the expected education you would give patients regarding the flu shot -- as I think that is the main concern as a (potential) future nurse educator and as a current patient educator.

I am also competent in assessing scientific literature and am genuinely curious what studies have raised red flags for you regarding the flu shot. I do know it is a highly emotionally charged issue among certain segments of the U.S. population, and anecdotes can be confused with trial results, and false or misleading information is easily spread via social media, etc., etc. I say this with sincerity... I can see how this has become a muddied and confusing issue for some people. This is why I, and countless other healthcare providers, rely on the highest level of evidence to guide practice, and that evidence solidly supports the flu vaccine (even when it is not a "great match") as a measure to limit flu-related critical illness and death. I know you did not want a debate on the efficacy of the flu vaccine, but as a fellow DNP student/nurse scientist, I felt compelled to offer those few words on the subject.

I am unclear what point you were trying to make regarding texting and driving and drinking .... these things lead to harm/potential harm? Are you likening that to the potential harm associated with refusing the flu vaccine?

Also, it is nice that you are able, and willing, to give financial gifts to others in need. I'm sure you realize that doesn't speak to your clinical proficiency as a nurse, but I'm assuming you shared that to defend your character as someone who obviously cares deeply about the well-being of others. I'm sure most here don't doubt that.

I think this thread took a turn you did not desire or anticipate, but it would be very unlikely to be able to avoid the debate of vaccine efficacy in a roomful of nurses.

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On 2/6/2020 at 8:10 AM, Waiting for Retirement said:

I mention this because I would be concerned about an educator who would not support scientific data in favor of a personal opinion. Honest, simple question: Would you, OP, as an educator or clinical leader promote your personal choices surrounding the flu vaccine rather than the scientifically-supported position of the rest of the healthcare community? Or would you keep those choices to yourself and still be able to educate and inform according to the currently accepted standard of care where vaccines are concerned?

I think this is really what has us most concerned, and why there are many (perceived hurtful) comments that OP shouldn't be a nurse. We as nurses are incredibly protective of our patients. They come before OPs hurt feelings. If a nurse still wants to bury her head in the sand and hold a belief that goes completely against what science tells us...that's one thing. But when you start putting patients at risk because of it...if you choose to not educate, according to SCIENCE, the public about vaccines, then I stop caring about your hurt feelings. As a previous poster put it...where does it stop? Pneumonia, shingles etc...Therefore, we as nurses stop trusting you. Unfortunately the public doesn't know any better.

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18 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:

Please do! in the facility where I work (psych) we see a number of indigent folks and we have programs where staff can donate clothing, food and even money to help them out. Still all donations are given to the hospital and are from the hospital. No individual recognition is given to the person donating.

Hppy

This is the appropriate way to handle it. I blame the institution, but still the individual has the responsibility to not create the boundary issue.

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Specializes in Assistant Professor, Nephrology, Internal Medicine.
3 minutes ago, Kareina22 said:

I understand Your concern about the flu vaccine, is one of the most dangerous vaccines out there. There is very little meaningful research on the flu vaccine with research performed using prior year’s vaccine rather than testing against a control of unvaccinated individuals. There is zero data on the efficacy of vaccineAs versus unvaccinated individuals. It is also ethically questionable for hospitals, etc. to require employee to. vaccinate, especially when their CMS reimbursements are directly tied to the percentage of hospital staff receiving the influenza vaccination. There is real research that demonstrated the harmful nature of influenza and other vaccination. Check out, “Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies: 400 Important Scientific Papers Summarized for Parents and Researchers”. I was disappointed to see the bullying & judging replies to this query.

Either this is a satirical joke, or we have a sheep here listening to one crazy debunked nutcase. This ‘book’ from Neil z. Miller is filled with mislogic and medical inaccuracies. By the way, the guy has absolutely no medical training. Since when should we listen to someone with 1) no science background, 2) cannot understand nor replicate scientific inquiry, and 3) is obviously in it for the money? If someone was able to find such ‘truth’ on the failings of vaccines, wouldn’t he want to spread it for free? Think about that for a minute when all of you anti-vaxxers call us money hungry providers.

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Specializes in NICU, L&D, Public Health.

Oh goodness no. Miller's book should be no guide, please. As for the OP, I am just curious should your role be educating as a DNP what do you plan to tell the public, your patients, students, whoever your audience would be, about vaccines, mostly about the flu vaccine?

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
16 minutes ago, Kareina22 said:

I understand Your concern about the flu vaccine, is one of the most dangerous vaccines out there. There is very little meaningful research on the flu vaccine with research performed using prior year’s vaccine rather than testing against a control of unvaccinated individuals. There is zero data on the efficacy of vaccineAs versus unvaccinated individuals.

You really drank the Cool Aid huh? None of this has any basis in reality.

Here is one example of a double-blind RCT.

Bridges CB, Thompson WW, Meltzer MI, et al. Effectiveness and Cost-Benefit of Influenza Vaccination of Healthy Working Adults: A Randomized Controlled Trial. JAMA. 2000;284(13):1655–1663. doi:10.1001/jama.284.13.1655

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Specializes in Assistant Professor, Nephrology, Internal Medicine.
1 minute ago, BostonFNP said:

You really drank the Cool Aid huh? None of this has any basis in reality.

Whatever they drank, it is obviously affecting the CNS.

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Specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.

This post by the OP is ludicrious. Not mentioning the fact that they're not going to be a practicing Nurse Practitioner left out the fact that not getting the flu shot was germane. I raise the red flag on this.

On 2/6/2020 at 10:35 AM, JadedCPN said:

Oh my...can we start another thread on how completely inappropriate this is and the number of professional boundaries it crosses?

Who cares about your generosity vis-a-vis your post?It has nothing to do with your not getting the flu shot despite EBP.

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