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What to do about DNP and flu shot?

Nurses   (20,458 Views | 262 Replies)

Travelingon has 17 years experience as a BSN.

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KatieMI has 6 years experience as a BSN, MSN, RN and specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.

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2 hours ago, Banana nut said:

Thank  you  for your response; I understand that the virus antigens can change,  but the efficacy of the vaccine is ~20% as it is, so I feel if they aren't going to see if ive been previously exposed or if im already immune to what they are trying to inject me with it feels like bad science. Like throwing darts blindfolded with my personal health at risk and with very low odds of a reward if any at all.  

1). Efficacy of flu vaccine population-wise depends heavily on the precision of "immune forecast". 20% overall stands for very poor prediction year. For the best ones, it is about 60% and that's the max we can reach now. Overall it is 40 to 50%. But even those 40 to 50% mean billions of $ and thousands of saved lives due to massive numbers of people involved. 

2). What is immune forecast: the three main antigens of influenza virus, different in each in Flu A and Flu B, all have different genetic code which is now well known. By knowing the genome and partially epigenome too, we know the most mutagenic regions of the viral RNA. Basing on studies of the early mutations from samples and mathematically predictive variability of RNA mutagenic regions, we can predict which variety of each antigen is going to evolve most and create one out of many "sets" of antigen variations.  The process begins once massive number of samples start to be available (those positive "flu screening" nasal mucus samples are collected in labs all over the USA and Canada). The FDA/NIH/ Canadian "flu comission" makes decision about which variants of each antigen should go into next year vaccine sometime each February. 

It is one of the highest level jobs done each year in medical statistics and molecular genetics. 

There are attempts to create a vaccine designed on the base of whole antigen molecule, like the one for hep B. Unfortunately, antigens in question have low molecular weight and high level of cross-reactivity with human body proteins, so as of right now these attempts are not successful. 

Your "personal body reward" is indeed not too high even in the best case scenario. But you are living in the society which applies certain responsibilities upon each of its members so that society as a whole would experience benefits. By getting a flu shot you help to protect those who cannot develop immunity. You help to protect people like myself, with chronic lung diseases and high risk of requiring prolonged expensive health care should they get flu. You help others to stay at work and earn money instead of missing all that. 

This is your responsibility as society member, in addition to your duty as a health care worker. If you do not like this order of things, I suggest moving in some Third World country where nobody will care about your responsibilities as a citizen. Or living off grid and off society somewhere in Alaska inlands.

Gosh, I though it all was taught in Social Science classes in middle school. At least my kidda knew why mom and dad gotta pay taxes when she was 12 or so. 

Edited by KatieMI

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JadedCPN has 13 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Pediatrics, Pediatric Float, PICU, NICU.

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1 hour ago, Banana nut said:

I am concerned about my personal health and safely above everything else so I don't really care if we check anyone else's titers i do however feel im entitled to proper investigation and discover before a forced intervention is placed upon me.  

Nothing is being forced upon you, or anyone. As with everything else in life there are always choices, and there are always consequences to all choices.

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Banana nut has 2 years experience as a BSN, RN, EMT-B.

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2 minutes ago, JadedCPN said:

Nothing is being forced upon you, or anyone. As with everything else in life there are always choices, and there are always consequences to all choices.

That's not really true at all....

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Rose_Queen has 15 years experience as a BSN, MSN, RN and specializes in OR, education.

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10 minutes ago, Banana nut said:

That's not really true at all....

How are you being forced? You’re not. However, the choice of not complying with a requirement of employment is the end of that employment. It’s still a choice, it just has consequences. Just like if I make the choice to run a red light- it has consequences. 

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CharleeFoxtrot has 7 years experience as a ADN, RN.

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19 minutes ago, Rose_Queen said:

How are you being forced? You’re not. However, the choice of not complying with a requirement of employment is the end of that employment. It’s still a choice, it just has consequences. Just like if I make the choice to run a red light- it has consequences. 

Talking about there always being a choice, a motivational speaker once challenged her audience to come up scenarios. One was talking about having no choice but to change the baby's diapers. Speaker said no, you have a choice you can let it fill up until it falls off. The crowd laughed a little sheepishly at the joke.

The takeway lesson that that you always have choices, though the choice may not be what is right, just, correct or even beneficial.

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Banana nut has 2 years experience as a BSN, RN, EMT-B.

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5 minutes ago, CharleeFoxtrot said:

Talking about there always being a choice, a motivational speaker once challenged her audience to come up scenarios. One was talking about having no choice but to change the baby's diapers. Speaker said no, you have a choice you can let it fill up until it falls off. The crowd laughed a little sheepishly at the joke.

The takeway lesson that that you always have choices, though the choice may not be what is right, just, correct or even beneficial.

Do i have a choice in having multiple sclerosis?  Or to be born with Fetal alcohol syndrome? Do i have a choice in getting older?  I could keep going...

Edited by Banana nut

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6 minutes ago, Banana nut said:

Do i have a choice in having multiple sclerosis?  Or to be born with Fetal alcohol syndrome? Do i have a choice in getting older?  I could keep going...

Huh? Are these caused by getting a flu shot? There is no equivalency in your post. 

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KatieMI has 6 years experience as a BSN, MSN, RN and specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.

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On 2/8/2020 at 12:33 PM, Banana nut said:

Do i have a choice in having multiple sclerosis?  Or to be born with Fetal alcohol syndrome? Do i have a choice in getting older?  I could keep going...

You can perform reasonable actions to continue to have a full, productive and enjoyable life with all that including old age. 

(yes, you can do at least something in attempt to prevent multiple sclerosis - take vitamin D supplement and spend time outdoors).

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.328.9213%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&hl=en&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm1k4kIS83qLtwubuV2wHKP5Xxietw&nossl=1&oi=scholarr

Or you can choose ways to shorten your life as much as possible and therefore lessen your chances for dying old and prolonged suffering.

BTW, it all has absolutely nothing to do with vaccines in general and flu shot in particular. 

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.... how do you spent 5+ years studying nursing and not want to get your flu shot? I feel like you should probably get your money back for any microbiology class you’ve taken thus far. 

A career change would likely be your best bet. 

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Banana nut has 2 years experience as a BSN, RN, EMT-B.

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3 minutes ago, karramichelle said:

.... how do you spent 5+ years studying nursing and not want to get your flu shot? I feel like you should probably get your money back for any microbiology class you’ve taken thus far. 

A career change would likely be your best bet. 

I didn't pay for my degree it was all free.  I love my work and I love critical care.  And i love not getting my flu shot

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Hoosier_RN has 20 years experience as a MSN and specializes in LTC, home health, hospice, ICU, ER, dialysis.

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1 hour ago, Banana nut said:

Do i have a choice in having multiple sclerosis?  Or to be born with Fetal alcohol syndrome? Do i have a choice in getting older?  I could keep going...

No, nor did you make/not make a direct action yourself to get there. Getting/not getting vaccinated is a choice, by your own admission, in your case. MS, FAS, or other diseases are not communicable and are not caused by the affected persons own action/inaction. FAS is caused by a parental action; you grow older when you keep living, so if you make the choice of suicide, you won't get any older

Edited by Hoosier_RN

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perc71 has 14 years experience as a BSN, MSN, APRN, NP.

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Congratulations on furthering your nursing studies.  As an APRN, your mindset and practice should highly be driven by evidence-based practice (EBP). If you are allergic to influenza vaccinations, then you have to provide a note to your school and the areas where you will be doing clinical trainings.  You have the right to decline in the absence of any medical reason. However, do not expect your school and clinical sites to sign off on that. I think you are missing the big picture that this is not about our personal preferences. It is about patient safety and advocacy for preventative immunization.  In a nutshell, If you cannot comply with the flu shot requirement without a valid reason then take another career path. It is a free country, you can refuse, the school can refuse to admit you too, right?

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