What to do about DNP and flu shot?

Nurses General Nursing

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I am finishing my MSN soon, and had thought that I would get my DNP. However, I am second guessing this after a big ordeal from my school about me not taking a flu shot. My hospital does not require it if I wear a mask. I hate to put the time and money into getting a DNP, and at some point be required to take a flu shot to work in nursing. I WILL NOT. I will change careers. I’m not looking for pro flu shot comments here. However, I am looking for advice and useful information on what you think the future holds in this matter. I also have an MBA, and can just as easily go into a DBA program.

9 hours ago, mobaby said:

My cousin was a pharmacist with history of Cancer. Was advised by her employer that she had to have flu shot. Her oncologist advised her against it so she refused. She was fired.

I'll be honest....I don't believe that account.

"History of cancer" does not equal immunocompromised. History is not current, therefore, no contraindication to the vaccine. The employer knew that was BS and that's probably the real reason they were fired.

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On 2/3/2020 at 12:53 PM, Oldmahubbard said:

If you have had some type of verifiable adverse effect of a flu vaccine, and can never get another one, which happened to an acquaintance, I am sorry. Your nursing career is over.

Nah. There are plenty areas of nursing where its not a requirement. I've never once had to show proof of vaccination (flu.) But for clinicals? Definitely.

Edited to say, Im now wondering if I misread your comment. My apologies.

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10 hours ago, mobaby said:

In response to my post - my cousin was advised that the flu vaccine could take her out of remission therefore she should not be immunized as would do more harm than good. I am not doubting her story as *she lost a job she loved and cannot work in the health field again unless she submits to the vaccine.* I don't have access to her records so you can quote whatever research you like but that is her story.

There is no way that is true. As I stated previously, there are plenty of areas of nursing where the flu vaccine is not mandatory for employment. Heavily encouraged, yes. But to say she can't work in healthcare again? Maybe not in a hospital. Even then I don't believe that to be true as plenty of places will allow you to wear a mask. That's being done away with, but these places do still exist.

This story just isn't adding up. There is definitely missing info you are unaware of.

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6 hours ago, WestCoastSunRN said:

I read through this whole thread thinking the OP would show back up, but hasn't.

This is a tangent, but I'm so curious as to the focus of a DNP for someone who has never worked as a nurse? I guess it's just a direct entry NP-type degree? It's not a completely irrelevant question, though, bc if you have had the unfortunate occasion to watch (as a nurse) a patient die of a largely preventable illness (the flu), it leaves a lasting impression and gives the science some personal "teeth" if-you-will.

I hate getting the actual shot - had six months of pain and limited mobility from a pharmacist-delivered injection once(hit a nerve, I guess) - I know that's a more common risk and I continue to do it for my job and the sake of my patients - because I want to continue working with patients. I will admit to having this fantasy that I am healthy enough to not die of the flu, myself, - even though I know better and have seen other healthy humans die of the flu. The point of me sharing that is to say our egos/emotions/feelings will, at times, defy rational thought/logic.

I don't know the OPs reason for not being willing to get the flu shot -- it begs questions about other vaccines, etc. And for me, I'm really curious about their journey into nursing via an MSN/DNP....

I am the OP, and quite honestly, I was flying home from vacation when I placed the original post, and have been extremely busy since I have been home. There are a few people whom I need to reply to on here because of their courtesy. Yet, many of these comments have been rude, and did not provide me with the requested information, so no response is necessary. I have been an RN 17 years this month. I started as an ASN, then got a Bachelor's in Healthcare Management, then an MBA. I decided at my age, I should get a BSN due to the push for BSNs, and I am now finishing an MSN program. I have plans to get a DNP, but not a nurse practitioner like everyone has automatically assumed. The DNP would have a leadership or educational focus. I have no desire to be a nurse practitioner. So, I am fairly educated, know how to read research, and how to see who pays for the research, and who benefits from the research, oftentimes. I believe vaccines when created years ago were good, and had great benefit. I've had vaccines in my past; I may have some in my future; the flu vaccine is not one of them.

I do not remember if you (and I don't have time to look back through them right now) were one of those that posted that I should not be a nurse, and that I needed to leave the profession. However, if others read this, I'll say that is very hurtful and uncalled for in the context that they wrote it. I did ask for advice, and if that advice was to leave because they did not foresee a way around the flu shot requirements, and that it was only going to get worse, that is a reasonable response. However, to tell me to leave the profession because I do not believe like they do, and am not willing to have someone tell me that I will inject something into my body is a different story. This month, my hospital is recognizing me because I paid for the cremation of a young woman in her 20's because her mother was so distraught at the thought of her daughter lying in the hospital morgue for days, weeks, or months with no way to pay for cremation or burial. I've handed $500 checks out to more patients and co-workers than I can count in my time as a nurse because there was a need, and I could fulfill it. I'm a very detail oriented person and nurse. I believe I have provided better care than many nurses that I have worked with in my 17 years. So, to read the comments of those with snide remarks has been hurtful. They do not know me or the work that I do. I also wonder how many of them have sent a text while driving, or have possibly driven after having a drink. They're putting others' lives at risk with that behavior, too. Well enough with this, I have to get back to the class I am working on, because I have a DNP to go after.

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Specializes in ER.
8 hours ago, WestCoastSunRN said:

I read through this whole thread thinking the OP would show back up, but hasn't.

This is a tangent, but I'm so curious as to the focus of a DNP for someone who has never worked as a nurse? I guess it's just a direct entry NP-type degree? It's not a completely irrelevant question, though, bc if you have had the unfortunate occasion to watch (as a nurse) a patient die of a largely preventable illness (the flu), it leaves a lasting impression and gives the science some personal "teeth" if-you-will.

I hate getting the actual shot - had six months of pain and limited mobility from a pharmacist-delivered injection once(hit a nerve, I guess) - I know that's a more common risk and I continue to do it for my job and the sake of my patients - because I want to continue working with patients. I will admit to having this fantasy that I am healthy enough to not die of the flu, myself, - even though I know better and have seen other healthy humans die of the flu. The point of me sharing that is to say our egos/emotions/feelings will, at times, defy rational thought/logic.

I don't know the OPs reason for not being willing to get the flu shot -- it begs questions about other vaccines, etc. And for me, I'm really curious about their journey into nursing via an MSN/DNP....

We are all just talking to ourselves. The oftentimes futility of internal forums.

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Specializes in Hospice.
5 hours ago, Dachshundmom said:

I am the OP, and quite honestly, I was flying home from vacation when I placed the original post, and have been extremely busy since I have been home. There are a few people whom I need to reply to on here because of their courtesy. Yet, many of these comments have been rude, and did not provide me with the requested information, so no response is necessary. I have been an RN 17 years this month. I started as an ASN, then got a Bachelor's in Healthcare Management, then an MBA. I decided at my age, I should get a BSN due to the push for BSNs, and I am now finishing an MSN program. I have plans to get a DNP, but not a nurse practitioner like everyone has automatically assumed. The DNP would have a leadership or educational focus. I have no desire to be a nurse practitioner. So, I am fairly educated, know how to read research, and how to see who pays for the research, and who benefits from the research, oftentimes. I believe vaccines when created years ago were good, and had great benefit. I've had vaccines in my past; I may have some in my future; the flu vaccine is not one of them.

I do not remember if you (and I don't have time to look back through them right now) were one of those that posted that I should not be a nurse, and that I needed to leave the profession. However, if others read this, I'll say that is very hurtful and uncalled for in the context that they wrote it. I did ask for advice, and if that advice was to leave because they did not foresee a way around the flu shot requirements, and that it was only going to get worse, that is a reasonable response. However, to tell me to leave the profession because I do not believe like they do, and am not willing to have someone tell me that I will inject something into my body is a different story. This month, my hospital is recognizing me because I paid for the cremation of a young woman in her 20's because her mother was so distraught at the thought of her daughter lying in the hospital morgue for days, weeks, or months with no way to pay for cremation or burial. I've handed $500 checks out to more patients and co-workers than I can count in my time as a nurse because there was a need, and I could fulfill it. I'm a very detail oriented person and nurse. I believe I have provided better care than many nurses that I have worked with in my 17 years. So, to read the comments of those with snide remarks has been hurtful. They do not know me or the work that I do. I also wonder how many of them have sent a text while driving, or have possibly driven after having a drink. They're putting others' lives at risk with that behavior, too. Well enough with this, I have to get back to the class I am working on, because I have a DNP to go after.

The longest flounce I’ve seen in a while!

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7 hours ago, Dachshundmom said:

I have plans to get a DNP, but not a nurse practitioner like everyone has automatically assumed. The DNP would have a leadership or educational focus.

You could have cleared this up 10 pages ago and it would have taken about 2 minutes.

Point of clarification though, all of our leaders and educators who work in the hospital are still required to get a flu shot. This, of course, does not apply if that is not your intended direction.

Lastly, it's nice that you do things for people but it takes on a different meaning when you advertise it. Many of us here do nice things too but there's honor in doing it quietly and without awards. I thought your most recent post was fine until the last part. You lost me there and probably anyone else who supported you.

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Specializes in Dialysis.
2 hours ago, Wuzzie said:

it's nice that you do things for people but it takes on a different meaning when you advertise it. Many of us here do nice things too but there's honor in doing it quietly and without awards. I thought your most recent post was fine until the last part. You lost me there and probably anyone else who supported you.

I agree, and it made no difference to the totality of the OP or any responses. I've always felt that if you are that wonderful, you don't have to advertise it. Giving patients and coworkers money doesn't make you a better nurse, or even a good one for that matter. It just means you have the money to give.

But back to the flu shot question. If it's a requirement for the program, it doesn't matter what your focus is, or what any of our responses are. It's a requirement. You will need to direct your argument to your chosen school, and see how that plays out

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9 hours ago, Dachshundmom said:

I have plans to get a DNP, but not a nurse practitioner like everyone has automatically assumed. The DNP would have a leadership or educational focus. I have no desire to be a nurse practitioner.

While I support any and everyone's right to an opinion, I do not support the spreading of misinformation. Opinions based on errors in understanding of material or lack of complete knowledge on a topic are also not valid opinions. I am not questioning your education, obviously you have had many opportunities to learn the facts. Yet your belief differs from those facts.

I say this as someone who recently had a bonafide conversation with a "Flat Earther", someone who absolutely latches onto any meme or email circulating the internet that supports a conspiracy theory surrounding the mistaken belief that the earth is actually not a globe...but is instead flat. I used to believe her well educated because of college degrees but now I know that despite her exposure to the facts she chooses to disregard them.

I mention this because I would be concerned about an educator who would not support scientific data in favor of a personal opinion. Honest, simple question: Would you, OP, as an educator or clinical leader promote your personal choices surrounding the flu vaccine rather than the scientifically-supported position of the rest of the healthcare community? Or would you keep those choices to yourself and still be able to educate and inform according to the currently accepted standard of care where vaccines are concerned?

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
9 hours ago, Dachshundmom said:

However, to tell me to leave the profession because I do not believe like they do,

I don't have any reason to doubt that you are a caring person but this issue isn't about that at all.

Your statement above demonstrates the crux of the issue: it is not a matter of believing what other believe rather it is about science and the scientific method, which has no room for your (or anyone else's) beliefs. It is objective.

You mention how well read you are, so please share the studies that are the foundation for your choice to never have the flu shot.

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9 hours ago, Dachshundmom said:

This month, my hospital is recognizing me because I paid for the cremation of a young woman in her 20's because her mother was so distraught at the thought of her daughter lying in the hospital morgue for days, weeks, or months with no way to pay for cremation or burial. I've handed $500 checks out to more patients and co-workers than I can count in my time as a nurse because there was a need, and I could fulfill it.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?????

I don't think that humble brag is going to get the response you were looking for, but thanks for sharing.

Look, it's true that the annual flu shot does not always produce great results in terms of preventing the vaccinated individual from getting the flu. But its benefits in terms of reducing severity of illness and preventing death is very VERY well documented.

If your objections have anything to do with VAERS, you've completely lost credibility in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Waiting for Retirement said:

I mention this because I would be concerned about an educator who would not support scientific data in favor of a personal opinion.

Very salient point.

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