I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
Specializes in Cardiology, Cardiothoracic Surgical.
The whole situation makes me angry AF (rape culture, etc.) but I am definitely grateful USA Swimming had the cajones to ban him for life. I'm a triathlete and I don't want awful people like this associated with any of my sports.
No, her behavior should not mitigate his sentence, but, old-fashioned, I do think girls and women should try to be more circumspect.
The world is full of men who have no respect for women, who do not feel protective toward women.
Women need to be made aware of this fact and behave accordingly. More modest dress, less alcohol, stop going to places where general wildness is encouraged. Stay in a group, don't go off alone with a male, stop the pre-marital and extra-marital sex. Seriously old-fashioned here, I know.
I have not read the mother's letter, but the father's letter really galled me. I want the rapist punished. I am upset with myself for feeling vindictive toward him, knowing that I also fall short of perfection and am a fallible human being. But I also want him rehabilitated.
The judge in this case has totally missed the mark and has shown serious disregard for the rape victim.
How exactly does a rapist know if his/her target has engaged in pre/extramarital sex? Is there are quick questionnaire, or a Q&A session? Were the elderly grannies raped in their homes late at night dressed to ask for it, or generally wilding it out while watching the 10 o'clock news? How exactly does a 3 year old dress to prevent rape?
Stop telling women to hide their bodies so men don't think about cooties. It doesn't prevent rape, it enables to continuation of rape culture as people use the converse of your argument to explain why she/he was raped.
Do men have to dress modestly and stop going off with single females? Men get raped as well.
I am appalled at the sentence he received. No, he did not show her any mercy. But we are better than he, are we not? If we show no mercy because the perpetrator did not, we bring ourselves down to the perpetrator's level.
I believe in mercy, but do not believe that everyone should be shown mercy. The rapist in this case has taken zero responsibility for committing sexual assault. While the victim spoke out in a stunningly eloquent manner and has received support from many advocates including VP Joe Biden, he is sheltered from these angry calls for justice by the people who actually handled his case. He caused untold further trauma and humiliation to the victim (and her sister, who blamed herself for not stopping the assault, and anyone else who feels needless guilt or shame due to this event) by dragging her through a trial. His parents, his lawyer, and the judge are all hell bent on protecting him from justice. Any lenience toward an unrepentant rapist is only further reinforcement for the belief that what he did wasn't a big deal.
As a mother of a son, and a victim of sexual assault, I don't put any weight on the mother just because she is an RN. Your first instinct as a mother is to protect you child. Being a nurse flies out the window. Please don't make this a witch hunt on the mother because she is a nurse.
I'm sure this boy wove his mom a big tale of deceit. She desperately wants to believe him. As delusional as that may seem, I get that. We never want to believe our children would deliberately cause harm to another human being. You want to believe you did better than that.
As a victim of a sexual assault and then attempted murder, it's the decision of the judge that angers me. It disgusts me actually. This "boy" does not need a second chance right now. He needs to suffer as far as I am concerned. I still, 17 years later, have nightmares about my rapist. I dream he finally got into my home and is going to finish the job. Those thoughts are always in the back of mind. I can still clearly see him pointing the gun at me to this day. I can still feel his breath on my neck.
This man has very severe problems. But it's not the fault of his parents. They never got pregnant intending to raise their child as a rapist. Never. They didn't. Somewhere along the way, this mans brain went down a different road. I've met people who have grown up in horrendous circumstances who are the kindest, most caring, people you will know.
I knew the mother of my rapist. He was a guy I casually dated who introduced me to his mom. We used to line dance together. Never once did I blame her for what her son did to me. Not once.
This woman will be affected for the rest of her life. Escaping it will never be possible. Hopefully she can move on. I did with my life. But, don't, blame the mother because she is trying to protect her son, no matter how misguided.
This really has given me a new perspective to look at when it comes to his mom!
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Any lenience toward an unrepentant rapist is only further reinforcement for the belief that what he did wasn't a big deal.
I am a believer that EVERYONE should be shown mercy, regardless of what they themselves have done. I'm not Christian, but I believe Jesus was a pretty righteous dude, and I believe that is what he would do.
To me, mercy does not mean leniency. It means forgiveness, and absence of wishes of harm.
Even though I may desire mercy, does not mean I do not think he should be imprisoned for 3-6 years, banned for life from the US swim team, and registered as a sex offender. I believe ALL those things should occur. But no, I do not think he should be raped in prison and forced to feel the same fear and pain that the victim felt. That solves nothing and helps no one, but simply perpetuates violence, pain and fear.
It did bother me that the mother's letter to the judge was really an "all about me" narrative where she talks about how she can't even decorate her new home because of what happened. It was so self-centered, "why him; why me; why us????" I imagine the victim thinks that every, single day.
How is the son framing this incident? He has convinced his parents it was consensual? That both him and this girl were having consensual sex behind a dumpster??
Are you serious? This is your solution? Tell women and girls to cover up and wait until marriage to have sex? How can you be that obtuse?
Let's back up just a tad - I don't think kooky was totally wrong in saying that women need to take some responsibility for their own safety. Personally, I think every girl approaching menarche should get a gun and free really good hand-to-hand combat and firearms training. But that's just me.
Also child rape is a whole 'nother bucket of worms. I don't think that sobriety and modest dress quite addresses that problem.
I also think that there's a very fine line between expecting some personal responsibility for our own safety and blaming the victim. Personal standards of modesty are not the problem, in my view. Using the transgression of those standards as an excuse for rape is ... and I did not see where kooky did that. I think her observations - some of them anyway - were valid, to a point.
Men are, in general, conditioned to believe they have the right to sexual access to women and to exercise their power - and that is what rape is about - by using that access whenever, however they please. Women are conditioned by rape culture as well. I believe that conditioning is what kooky was driving at. I believe that we need to ask ourselves just exactly where that conditioning comes from. Hint: think multimillion dollar industries
Kooky, of course, is fully capable of speaking for herself and I could be totally wrong. But that's how I read her post.
We old fahts from back in the beginning of the second wave have been struggling with rape culture since the speak-outs in the seventies. Remember Susan Brownmiller? It's heartening to see discussions like this. The last 50 years have not been wasted! I may be old, but my shoulders are strong, so go ahead, stand on 'em and kickbutt
It did bother me that the mother's letter to the judge was really an "all about me" narrative where she talks about how she can't even decorate her new home because of what happened. It was so self-centered, "why him; why me; why us????" I imagine the victim thinks that every, single day.
How is the son framing this incident? He has convinced his parents it was consensual? That both him and this girl were having consensual sex behind a dumpster??
I read through the victim's letter. Apparently, he tried to convince everyone that she did say yes. She doesn't remember anything, so it was a his word against hers kind of thing.
Of course, if I was having consensual sex behind a dumpster, I wouldn't run away like I was doing something wrong when a couple of other college students came up to try to help. Heck, the person I was having sex with would probably try to cover me up and I would be trying to cover him up, too - because I don't have sex with unconscious people.
It's obscene to think he could have possibly gotten away with the "She said yes" excuse, even if she did utter that word - considering she was so black out drunk that there's no way she could have legally consented, and she wasn't even conscious by the time the other two students found them.
Let's back up just a tad - I don't think kooky was totally wrong in saying that women need to take some responsibility for their own safety. Personally, I think every girl approaching menarche should get a gun and free, very good hand-to-hand combat and firearms training. But that's just me.
Also child rape is a whole 'nother bucket of worms. I don't think that modest dress quite covers it.
I also think that there's a very fine line between expecting some personal responsibility for our own safety and blaming the victim. Personal standards of modesty are not the problem, in my view. Using the transgression of those standards as an excuse for rape is ... and I did not see where kooky did that. I think her observations - some of them anyway - were valid, to a point.
Men are, in general, conditioned to believe they have the right to sexual access to women and to exercise their power - and that is what rape is about - by using that access whenever, however they please. Women are conditioned by rape culture as well. I believe that conditioning is what kooky was driving at. I believe that we need to ask ourselves just exactly where that conditioning comes from. Hint: think multimillion dollar industries
Kooky, of course, is fully capable of speaking for herself, so I could be wrong. But that's how I read her post.
I don't think drunk people need guns. Sometimes, drunk people are attacked. Giving guns to everyone is not a brilliant answer to assault and rape prevention.
Kooky was advocating that women be pure, modestly dressed angels to prevent getting raped. That's putting the onus of "preventing" rape on the victims - essentially saying there are things victims could have done to not have this happen, instead of saying rapists are disgusting humans with no regard for the safety and wellbeing of anyone else.
Personal standards of modesty are not the problem, in my view. Using the transgression of those standards as an excuse for rape is ... and I did not see where kooky did that. I think her observations - some of them anyway - were valid, to a point.
They weren't appropriate for this situation, at least. The victim specifically mentions her younger sister making fun of her because cardigan she wore made her look like a librarian.
So at least two of the things Kooky talked about as being things women should do, the victim did - she dressed modestly and she was with someone she knew at the party, and neither of those stopped her from getting raped.
Let's back up just a tad - I don't think kooky was totally wrong in saying that women need to take some responsibility for their own safety. Personally, I think every girl approaching menarche should get a gun and free really good hand-to-hand combat and firearms training. But that's just me.
Also child rape is a whole 'nother bucket of worms. I don't think that sobriety and modest dress quite addresses that problem.
I also think that there's a very fine line between expecting some personal responsibility for our own safety and blaming the victim. Personal standards of modesty are not the problem, in my view. Using the transgression of those standards as an excuse for rape is ... and I did not see where kooky did that. I think her observations - some of them anyway - were valid, to a point.
Men are, in general, conditioned to believe they have the right to sexual access to women and to exercise their power - and that is what rape is about - by using that access whenever, however they please. Women are conditioned by rape culture as well. I believe that conditioning is what kooky was driving at. I believe that we need to ask ourselves just exactly where that conditioning comes from. Hint: think multimillion dollar industries
Kooky, of course, is fully capable of speaking for herself and I could be totally wrong. But that's how I read her post.
We old fahts from back in the beginning of the second wave have been struggling with rape culture since the speak-outs in the seventies. Remember Susan Brownmiller? It's heartening to see discussions like this. The last 50 years have not been wasted! I may be old, but my shoulders are strong, so go ahead, stand on 'em and kickbutt
Sorry, I respectfully just can't agree with your interpretation of that post. I found it disgusting. Nowhere was there any mention of what can be done to prevent rapists from raping. Instead, the sentiment seemed (to me) to be that we can't do anything about men wanting to rape women, so women need to figure out how to avoid it.
Women need to be made aware of this fact and behave accordingly. More modest dress, less alcohol, stop going to places where general wildness is encouraged. Stay in a group, don't go off alone with a male, stop the pre-marital and extra-marital sex. Seriously old-fashioned here, I know.
"Seriously old-fashioned' is not the word I would use to describe your point of view.
Wrench Party
823 Posts
The whole situation makes me angry AF (rape culture, etc.) but I am definitely grateful USA Swimming had the cajones to ban him for life. I'm a triathlete and I don't want awful people like this associated with any of my sports.