I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
you said they were encouraging a rape culture. I don't believe that. I believe they are in severe denial about their son.
I respectfully suggest that denial is part of rape culture. The parents' defense of the perpetrator disgusts me, and while I agree that focusing our wrath on them is not particularly productive, I disagree that being a parent gives you a free pass to deny your child's criminal behavior.
The parents and the judge are both more concerned with how consequences will negatively affect the perpetrator's future than with the damage he caused another human being. The difference is that the judge has power over the outcome.
Please don't take that as a personal attack; I know that sexual violence is an extremely sensitive issue for a lot of us. I think for hotbed issues like this, people who mostly agree can end up being hurt over the finer points, and that's not my intent. I don't apologize for my beliefs but I certainly don't want to cause anyone pain, either.
I respectfully suggest that denial is part of rape culture. The parents' defense of the perpetrator disgusts me, and while I agree that focusing our wrath on them is not particularly productive, I disagree that being a parent gives you a free pass to deny your child's criminal behavior.
The parents and the judge are both more concerned with how consequences will negatively affect the perpetrator's future than with the damage he caused another human being. The difference is that the judge has power over the outcome.
Please don't take that as a personal attack; I know that sexual violence is an extremely sensitive issue for a lot of us. I think for hotbed issues like this, people who mostly agree can end up being hurt over the finer points, and that's not my intent. I don't apologize for my beliefs but I certainly don't want to cause anyone pain, either.
I agree with this completely. While it may not be especially productive to focus disgust on his parents, they do not deserve a free pass and they way they've worded their denials of their son's actions is despicable. In my opinion, it is entirely feasible that this young man's behavior could have been caused, in some part, by his upbringing. Maybe they raised him in a household where there is a culture of disrespect against women, where no one taught him about consent or empathy. Obviously, that may not be the case, there is no way to know for sure, but not every rapist has something just sick inside of them of unknown origin that "made" them that way. In that sense, it's possible to me that his parents do hold some responsibility for this horrible situation. And the fact that his mother is a nurse means nothing to me. I've met awful nurses, just as I've met awful doctors, lawyers, teachers, and construction workers. Nurses aren't saints.
Despite the fact that his sentence was ridiculously unfair, I do take comfort in the fact that the rapist will be a registered sex offender for life, and in how much support has been shown to the victim. I do feel like the conversation about rape is changing, with a real fight back against victim-blaming, as sad as it is that it takes a case like this to do so.
I don't know how we could impact rape culture without looking at parental attitudes. Remember the high school where several football players raped (and desecrated the victim's body) and the coaches and parents didn't back her up with outrage. Rather they protected their own?
There is more to changing rape culture than modeling and raising men who respect women. We have to raise empathetic men who are mortified at such cruelty. And who have to SEE it as cruelty.
If one of my sons hurt an innocent anything, I'm going to look at what we did or didn't do to raise a man with sociopathic tendencies. Is it the parents fault? Not directly, but how do thousands/millions of drunk men NOT rape a drunk woman?
What makes that difference? How can we raise men to respect others if parenting doesn't play a role?
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
The whole thing is disgusting. The fact that rapist never took fully took blame & tried to place it on everyone & thing is sickening. But reading the letters from his parents it shows that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
I understand that is their son but 2 people saw him in the act & a jury found him guilty. I have a son & if he did something that horrendous I would not stick up for him. If he does the crime, he has to do the time.
As far as the judge, ugh. I can't even. I don't know how he rationed in his head that he didn't want to ruin the rapist's life but didn't realize the poor victim's life has been ruined.
Three months is nothing. He is in protective custody so nothing will happen to him. But I believe life will be harder for him once he gets out of jail. Everyone has seen his face & is pissed at him. I don't doubt it will be easy for him to get a job or do anything once he gets out.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
What do the rest of you feel about this?
I can GUARANTEE you that if I were the guy guilty of rape, my mother would be leading the charge to have the judge throw the book at me. And if my father were still alive, he would probably beat me to a pulp.
The way those parents responded is absolutely mind boggling.
I always, ALWAYS discount whatever parents have to say in these situations. Murderers who have killed people in front of multiple witnesses have family members who continue to deny their guilt or try to rationalize it. Denial in these kinds of cases it remarkably strong.
While I get that they will try really hard to see the best in their kid and beg for leniency, the amount of victim blaming has been despicable. The fact that the victim may have been imprudent in her alcohol consumption should not mitigate his sentence ONE IOTA.
No, her behavior should not mitigate his sentence, but, old-fashioned, I do think girls and women should try to be more circumspect.
The world is full of men who have no respect for women, who do not feel protective toward women.
Women need to be made aware of this fact and behave accordingly. More modest dress, less alcohol, stop going to places where general wildness is encouraged. Stay in a group, don't go off alone with a male, stop the pre-marital and extra-marital sex. Seriously old-fashioned here, I know.
I have not read the mother's letter, but the father's letter really galled me. I want the rapist punished. I am upset with myself for feeling vindictive toward him, knowing that I also fall short of perfection and am a fallible human being. But I also want him rehabilitated.
The judge in this case has totally missed the mark and has shown serious disregard for the rape victim.
"Hopefully someone will rape him in jail. And for the 6 months. I doubt he will even serve that amount. It is disgusting all around . I am sure he will do something like this again and it will be worse. Very sad." FloridayRN38
And as a rape survivor, I find this disgusting. I don't wish this on my rapist, no way would I wish it on anyone.
There is a contract between people and the state. We give up vigilantism and the state will protect us and justly punish those who attack and violate us. The state has failed in its duty to see justice done. I don't blame people wanting to see this guy get his just desserts one way or another. I don't approve of vigilantism, and would rather people campaigned for a harsher sentence. However I really really don't blame people for thinking this.
No, her behavior should not mitigate his sentence, but, old-fashioned, I do think girls and women should try to be more circumspect.
The world is full of men who have no respect for women, who do not feel protective toward women.
Women need to be made aware of this fact and behave accordingly. More modest dress, less alcohol, stop going to places where general wildness is encouraged. Stay in a group, don't go off alone with a male, stop the pre-marital and extra-marital sex. Seriously old-fashioned here, I know.
I agree with the less alcohol part, but I apply it equally to women and men. Being extremely intoxicated makes a person less aware of their surroundings and less likely to be able to identify and avoid potentially dangerous situations. It's simply a good self-defense technique to maintain some of your wits. But as I said, this advice applies to both men and women. The risk of becoming a victim of crime (not just sexual crimes and not just women) as well as accidents increases with intoxication.
Apart from the above I think that you are confusing your own moral values with effective crime prevention. Women were raped in Victorian times when not even their ankles were bared in public. Women are raped in countries today where religious customs demand that they cover themselves completely in Burqas/Burkhas. Modest dress does not protect women from sexual assault and rape. Neither does refraining from pre-marital or extra-marital sex. You are making this a morality issue when rape is, and always has been, a question of disregarding/disrespecting a person's autonomy and exerting power over that someone. It's about being physically stronger and subjugating someone to your will.
In my opinion men don't have to feel protective towards women but what's needed is that all human beings embrace the idea that every other human being should be treated as individuals with an inalienable right to autonomy, integrity, self-determination and respect.
OP, this sad story reached my corner of the world because the two men that found the assault victim were fellow countrymen. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have heard about it.
The story is sadly familiar. So called date rapes in university settings are much too common. It seems like Stanford University has a lot of work to do if they want to be viewed as seriously addressing this problem.
I'm not at all surprised that the parents react the way they do. When I worked in law enforcement this was the reaction that I most often encountered in family members of the assailant of a violent sexual crime. I think that it's denial originating from the incapability to accept that your loved one or child is a despicable sexual predator. And the inability to deal with how such an acknowledgment of the perpetrator's crime would reflect on them as parents. (Both the internalized feeling of guilt and shame as well as the condemnation from friends and neighbors).
I do agree that it's problematic that the parents perpetuate the "drunken" victim and assailant version of events as being a mitigating circumstance for the assailant. It is not. How a person chooses to dress, how drunk she or he is or how many partners he or she has previously had consentual sexual relations with, should in my opinion have no bearing on the investigation of an alleged sexual crime.
I also think that the whole 20 minute act out of a 20 year life argument put forth by the assailant's father is ridiculous. I can draw my holstered gun, chamber a round and pull the trigger, and fire one lethal shot in less than two seconds. Should that mean that I get a more lenient sentence if I decide to murder someone, simply because I've lived ~40 years and two seconds is such a small percentage of that? Of course not. It's not the duration of the criminal act that matters, it's the intent, gravity and outcome of the crime that should be the deciding factors when it comes to determining the appropriate legal punishment.
I agree with the poster who said that we should direct our wrath primarily at the judicial system who I think failed the victim in this case. While courts often take into account what other impacts the conviction itself has on the convicted criminal (such as in this case the loss of a chance to complete his studies), a six-month sentence does seem extremely lenient. After all, whatever losses this young man has suffered, he brought them on himself by his own criminal act. In my opinion a minimum of five years would have been the desirable outcome, preferably more.
To the poster who wished that the assailant gets raped in prison. I hope that it was just an impulsive and primitive reaction to this crime and not a reflection on your genuine feelings of how the judicial system should work. I consider the notion disgusting and regard a correctional facility that can't keep its inmates safe from physical harm as incompetetly managed. The punishment is loss of liberty, not physical mistreatment and abuse. Treatment like that is the hallmark of autocratic dictatorships where human rights are blatantly disregarded on a regular basis. We can and should do better.
The young man is an adult who made a bad decision - I am not sure why people are looking towards his parents that much. There is always the question of "did the parents do anything wrong" or "did they parent at all" but to be honest, you can parent as much as you want, at his age young adults make their own decisions (and obviously not always the right or best ones).
It is very sad for the victim, I am glad that she is able to articulate how it has impacted her.
As a survivor of extreme violence I do not wish that this young man gets violated himself. I wish healing for the young woman.
I also think that the whole 20 minute act out of a 20 year life argument put forth by the assailant's father is ridiculous. I can draw my holstered gun, chamber a round and pull the trigger, and fire one lethal shot in less than two seconds. Should that mean that I get a more lenient sentence if I decide to murder someone, simply because I've lived ~40 years and two seconds is such a small percentage of that? Of course not. It's not the duration of the criminal act that matters, it's the intent, gravity and outcome of the crime that should be the deciding factors when it comes to determining the appropriate legal punishment.
Thank you for saying this. I have been saying the exact same thing. Maybe it should be legal to shoplift because it only takes me five seconds to put that item in my pocket. Maybe it should be legal to murder because firing a bullet takes less than a minute.
Heck, by those standards, 20 minutes is a really long time and rape should have a harsher punishment than murder because it takes so much longer.
Whoa. Uhh no. I hope that does not happen to him. Vengeance is not the answer.
That is not vengeance, it is being happy to allow him to suffer the highly probable outcome from the choices he made. He needs to know what it feels like to be held down, have your legs pried apart and things stuck into your body against your will. This may not be the answer, but neither is a weak prison sentence and giving him a good talking to.
NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN
791 Posts
I respectfully suggest that denial is part of rape culture. The parents' defense of the perpetrator disgusts me, and while I agree that focusing our wrath on them is not particularly productive, I disagree that being a parent gives you a free pass to deny your child's criminal behavior.
The parents and the judge are both more concerned with how consequences will negatively affect the perpetrator's future than with the damage he caused another human being. The difference is that the judge has power over the outcome.
Please don't take that as a personal attack; I know that sexual violence is an extremely sensitive issue for a lot of us. I think for hotbed issues like this, people who mostly agree can end up being hurt over the finer points, and that's not my intent. I don't apologize for my beliefs but I certainly don't want to cause anyone pain, either.