Okay, I fully expect to be slammed for this. What do all these posts about gaming the system to get early results say about the character of some of the new grads/nurse candidates? One of the prime requisites of being a nurse is good judgement. Boasting about or encouraging fraudulent behavior by using inaccurate or inadequate credit card information to get test results hours or days quicker does not speak well of one's judgement and maturity. Is this what we accept from our colleagues?
It may be harsh but I think this is a matter of integrity. I understand impatience very well, I understand wanting to know if all the work of school paid off, what I don't understand is how easily one can ignore the lessons of integrity and professionalism.
If one can lie to a faceless testing company how one respond when faced with a potential life threatening situation that requires, patience, integrity, and maturity. It's a slippery slope, a little harmless deception here may reveal character issues that come to light when real harm may be caused.
So, slam me, flame me, whatever, or I hope some will agree with me.
I can't really see how to have a valid discussion on this topic then
What you mean is that you can't find a way to convince me to agree with you because my position is absolute. As far as logic and philosophy that class taught me how people can justify anything if they can get enough people to agree. Even incest, pedophilia, and murder are moral if the culture says so. I believe that all of these things are wrong including lying. In 20-30 years when they start euthanizing the old and sick under whatever fake guise they put on it I will still think it's wrong. My opinions aren't based on the attitude d'jour. I think this thread has gone on enough for me. I'm going to the breakroom.
I don't get why there's so much self righteousness. Do you not shop at Walmart, do you refuse to eat meat, do you not use anything manufactured in China? All of these are lot more "dishonorable" then using a gift card with a low fund.
If we follow this logic, murder is less dishonorable than genocide, and is therefore acceptable.
You cannot dissuade me from an opinion on that slippery slope. Saying something is less bad than something else does not make it good.
What you mean is that you can't find a way to convince me to agree with you because my position is absolute. As far as logic and philosophy that class taught me how people can justify anything if they can get enough people to agree. Even incest, pedophilia, and murder are moral if the culture says so. I believe that all of these things are wrong including lying. In 20-30 years when they start euthanizing the old and sick under whatever fake guise they put on it I will still think it's wrong. My opinions aren't based on the attitude d'jour. I think this thread has gone on enough for me. I'm going to the breakroom.
You are comparing murder and incest to something that isn't wrong to begin with. Of course I'm trying to convince you, that's the whole point of a discussion I convince you or you convince me.
I really like to text my friend at 9pm every evening. It is "thing" and I like it, and nothing is going to get in the way of it. Only I work 3-11. So at 7pm I decide to give all of my patients their evening meds. Even the sleepers, who cares if they are up for the day at 3am, for the night nurse to deal with, and HEY at least the night aide will have am care done for the day shift. So I run around and do this. And text my friend at 9pm. Then at 10pm, I start charting, fudging the med times a little as to make it seem like I gave meds on time. I have other things to do at 9. It is an inconvenience to me to wait. So whatever, night meds can be given anytime at night. And this works for me. Taking it up a step, at 10pm (well within the "hour before or after" policy) I scan stickers and med packets one after the other so it looks like I gave the meds on time.
This is of course a total made up example, however, just a small example of a nurse who puts their own needs in front of the job that they need to do for patients or their need for instant gratification.
"Well, other nurses do this and it is not a big thing" vs. "Other test takers do this, and it is not a big deal". In both cases one is attempting to manipulate a system to satisfy their own personal needs.
And personal needs shouldn't trump a process.
How is a person putting their needs in front of anyone else's when attempting the PVT with a gift card? Who is being manipulated? We aren't robots, you make decisions based on the current situation.
How can you make this many assumptions based on so little data?
NOW you are. But did you not post as a CNA? You say 2+ years of CNA experience, yet a new nurse. You've been a member for 2+ years. I'm no math expert, but....
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
According to an online source (the free dictionary, maybe?)
Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.
In the case of using a gift card and getting "the good pop up" you are at least missing the 5th criterion for fraud.
No harm, no foul.
The injury to the victim is not being paid for services rendered.
Is it wrong to give false information to "pay" for something without intending to actually pay. Yes, I believe. Why? Because it's dishonest. I do, however, believe that there are certain degrees of wrongness. This lie does not hurt anyone, except the person using the PVT, as they may end up paying an unnecessary $200. But at the end of the day, I think it's technically wrong.
Do I think that a nurse who used the PVT lacks integrity or the ability to be a good nurse? No. If I believed that, none of us could hope to be good nurses. I've done wrong. You've done wrong. And we will continue to do so in the future. I feel that it's silly to be uncomfortable accepting care from a nurse who used the PVT. Did that nurse do something wrong? Yep. Are nurses saints? No, as has been established several times on AN.
SubSippi
911 Posts
The use of poor judgement isn't necessarily a reflection of poor character.
It's a matter of maturity...I'm willing to bet that most of these posters fretting over the PVT wouldn't bother with it ten or twenty years later.
And also, who hasn't used some band aids at work, or stood there waiting until exactly 7:30 to clock out to get the full 12 hours for your shift?
...You knew those band aids weren't yours!