Does the BSN in 10 apply to all nurses or just RN's and why?

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Does the bsn in 10 apply to all nurses or just rn and why?

Specializes in Palliative, Onc, Med-Surg, Home Hospice.
4 hours ago, pedi_nurse said:

I used to think this way, but now that I'm in an RN to BSN program I would have to disagree (mind you, I only started the program because it's needed on the resume to advance anywhere). I also used to think that my ADN clinicals were the same as a BSN clinical program. Again, I definitely don't think that way anymore. I'm precepting a BSN student and the experiences she has had in clinicals far exceeds what I was provided in my ADN program.

While that might be true for your program, that is not true across the board. My ADN program, we got more clinical hours and experience than did the 3 BSN programs in my area. Nurses who graduate from the ADN program are more likely to be hired as new grads than the BSN programs and the past rate of thee NCLEX is higher for the grads of the ADN program.

Exactly how did the BSN programs clinicals exceed those of your program?

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As always, the answer to this question is entirely dependent on location. In MANY locations, ADNs are hired with no problems. In certain large cities in my state, there are significant numbers of BSN required, and a good amount of BSN required within a certain period of time.

In some of the big cities in my state, LVNs are not hired in hospitals AT ALL.

So...it JUST DEPENDS.

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Specializes in Urgent Care, Oncology.
8 hours ago, LPNTORN704 said:

Yes, where I'm at they all have the same skill and do the same jobs. I'm not sure how it is where you live

Where YOU live? Where we ALL live in the USA. All RNs have the same scope of practice, with variations per state.

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Specializes in ICU.

I've heard of BSN in 5 years mandatory, but not sure anybody cares enough to enforce it.

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This is probably one of the better articles on how things reached this stage: http://home.nwciowa.edu/publicdownload/Nursing%20Department%5CNUR310%5CBSN%20Required.pdf

Also the famous (or infamous) white "position" paper published in 1964 making the case that BSN should be mandatory for entry into professional nurses (holding a RN license).

It is important to remember a few facts.

As then written the ANA advocated while making the BSN mandatory for becoming a RN, it also called for creating another license for ADN and diploma graduates (technical nurses).

Per the paper the BSN nurse wasn't supposed to be at the bedside usually. Rather she (or he) would be in a leading position of the nursing care team (technical nurses, LPNs/LVNs, aides and techs).

The BSN nurse would (among other functions) plan and evaluate patient care; the actual work in delivering such care would be meted out to technical and practical/vocational nurses and assistants. This is largely keeping with the (then) thoughts that BSN nurses (via their education) possessed the necessary background to diagnose, evaluate, supervise and so forth patient care, but sort of often thought slow on the uptake of "nursing arts" as it were. That is they were full of theory but short on rationale/practice.

You can see how such a proposal was going nowhere in the 1960's and at once drew howls of protest.

Diploma nurses who still were in great numbers then largely ran many hospitals or at least floors/units. They were then and for years afterwards as a group on average having highest board passing rates. Diploma nurses also as a group on average (then) ran circles out of the box both in orientation and first several years post graduate over ADN and BSN grads. To tell them they would now be called "technical" nurses was more than many were going to accept.

While this mandatory BSN debate raged through the 1970's and well past the 1980's care models changed. Team nursing which by and large was the standard in 1960's had been largely replaced by primary. Also by the 1970's many hospitals began phasing out practical/vocational nurses on first units then floors. This left just RNs and aides delivering care.

Obviously without "technical" and practical nurses much of that famous ANA white paper proposed doesn't work. For as hospitals and other facilities are concerned a nurse, is a nurse, is a nurse.

Unlike some other countries (such as Canada IIRC) being a RN does not automatically equate to holding a BSN degree in any of the fifty US states. This is what various BSN in Ten pushes seek to address.

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Canada phased out the diploma RN in 2009. Anyone graduating after that date has a BScN or BSN. The RN's without a degree were grandfathered in and as far as I know, they make $1/hour less than a degree holder.

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Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
On 1/28/2019 at 1:14 PM, LPNTORN704 said:

An RN is an RN..An RN with an associates does the same exact thing and has the same skills as an RN with a BSN.

Actually now that I am going after my BSN I can tell you that while the RN with an ASN and an RN with a BSN - may perform many of the same tasks and skills they do those things from a slightly different knowledge base. The BSN receives more education in evidence based practice, interpreting research findings, writing and management skills than the two year ASN.

Understand that this does not make one better than the other. Both degree paths have some very fine nurses. I have known some BSN's back in the day I could run circles around from a skills standpoint. I am going to retire in 9 years God willing so really had to weigh the risk/benefit of pursuing the BSN path. But choose to do so for the added boost in pay to add to my retirement.

Hppy

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I am an LPN that is currently in a BSN program. I was able to skip Nursing 101. I already had all of the pre reqs, so I was able to go into upper division major which is Nursing classes.

I have read the research. Facilities with more BSN prepared Nurses have better outcomes. It makes sense for me to get my BSN since I want to be an RN. I am excited, actually.

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Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.
On 1/29/2019 at 1:43 PM, pedi_nurse said:

Both? I may be wrong, but it just seems to me that there is much more involved with the BSN program. Higher expectations for assignments/papers, different clinical experiences (for example, many BSN programs do clinicals within public health), possibly more guidance from faculty.

On 1/29/2019 at 2:00 PM, Wuzzie said:

Proof please. Thank you.

What kind of proof exactly would you find acceptable? I'm not sure how you expect the poster to "prove" their opinion on this.

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7 hours ago, Julius Seizure said:

I'm not sure how you expect the poster to "prove" their opinion on this.

That was my point. Her "opinion", based on absolutely nothing, is one of the reasons there is so much in-fighting when this topic comes up. She has no facts to back up her opinion, just what she thinks. Take her point about public health nursing. "Many" BSN programs have clinicals in it. Well, so do may ADN programs and back in the dinosaur age when I went to a diploma school we did too. She seems to use this as an example to set the bar as to what differentiates and makes a BSN preferable while at the same time stating that not all BSN programs do this. So does that make those BSN programs less rigorous? I'm all for everyone getting to state their opinion but when you say something like she did you better have something to back it up. It's not like she said her favorite color is green. She pretty clearly stated that BSN programs expect more, grade harder, have a broader clinical experience and have more involved faculty. How she came to that conclusion is beyond me so I asked her to provide some proof. I don't think I was out of line to do so.

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Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.

I wonder who paid for these studies and who conducted them. I wish those same people would spend their time and energy advocating for better staffing levels which I think (guessing) would improve outcomes much more than making everyone become a BSN.

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Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
2 hours ago, Wuzzie said:

That was my point. Her "opinion", based on absolutely nothing, is one of the reasons there is so much in-fighting when this topic comes up. She has no facts to back up her opinion, just what she thinks. Take her point about public health nursing. "Many" BSN programs have clinicals in it. Well, so do may ADN programs and back in the dinosaur age when I went to a diploma school we did too. She seems to use this as an example to set the bar as to what differentiates and makes a BSN preferable while at the same time stating that not all BSN programs do this. So does that make those BSN programs less rigorous? I'm all for everyone getting to state their opinion but when you say something like she did you better have something to back it up. It's not like she said her favorite color is green. She pretty clearly stated that BSN programs expect more, grade harder, have a broader clinical experience and have more involved faculty. How she came to that conclusion is beyond me so I asked her to provide some proof. I don't think I was out of line to do so.

I tend to agree. No one can deny that a BSN student undergoes a more rigorous course of study. What I have noticed however in my own program is that the focus does not appear to be designed to make better bedside nurses. All most of my fellow students and instructors seem to talk about is getting the coveted MSN (NP) the DNP. These later degrees move nurses away from the bedside not toward it. Perhaps if bedside nurses were given the support they ask for in terms of safe staffing, PTO and Flex scheduling patients outcomes would improve as well.

Having taken statistics I have learned that it is very easy to message the numbers to convey whatever message you want. But when a person cites "Studies show" without referencing the studies themselves so we can read them and form our own opinion it becomes nothing more than opinion.

A nurse does not have to have an advanced degree to be a great bedside nurse and the fact that the Diploma and ADN are paid less and are toughing it out at the bedside speaks volumes about our perceived worth to the organizations we work for.

I personally thought about getting the NP but at my age I would be 60 by the time I finished so I am now doing it for the significant pay bump I will receive moving towards retirement.

Hppy

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