I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
Me too, I've checked this thread daily. It seems silly to use the word "proud" but I have felt very proud of my fellow nurses who have defended (and it should never need defending, it should be entirely self-evident) a person's right never to be raped. And maintained that defence in a passionate but articulate, logical and eloquent manner. Thank you from me as well.
Kooky, you've "liked" my post- I didn't mean you. I'm not going to apologise for that because I think your posts have been offensive and at times, cruel. I don't know what has driven you to post all the things you have especially when speaking directly to DV and sexual assault survivors. Nurse after nurse has told you they are offended and/or sickened. I am both. Just stop it?
Separately, I do wonder if anyone who needs the tea analogy to understand consent will never understand it.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Yes, we do need to teach men to respect women.
I hear now Trump is accused of rape. Great, just what we need in the White House. But I think Clinton will win - if she's not indicted over Benghazi (sp?) and/or emails.
You will never understand what I am talking about, I guess. Sigh. The least you could do is give me credit for applauding your strength and wisdom in getting out.
And you will never understand what I'm talking about. I agree with you on many OTHER threads, but in this one, it seems that we'll never understand one another.
Your stance sort of reminds me of my ex-husband. He used to write checks for whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted without regard to how much money was in the account and without recording his checks. Paying the bills was my responsibility, and in 1986 there was no logging online to check your account balances . . . you either kept track of every check you wrote or you waited until the monthly statement came. One time I wrote checks for rent, utilities, insurance and groceries without realizing that he'd spent ALL the money in our account. Checks were bouncing all over the place. He was in the Air Force, and that was a big deal. I got a call from the Base chaplain, wanting to explain to me what a big deal it was that we had bounced checks, that it would damage my husband's career. He wanted to give me lessons in money management . . . even when I explained what had happened, the chaplain insisted it was MY responsibility. (Perhaps my responsibility but not my fault.) Somehow in the ensuing discussion, it all came tumbling out. My husband had knocked me down the cement stairs of our front stoop before going to work that afternoon, and I was bruised, in pain and crying. The chaplain told me, in what I'm sure he thought were the kindest possible terms, that had I not bounced checks, my husband wouldn't have had to hit me. EXCUSE ME?
Of course word of our "confidential" conversation got back to my husband, and he was enraged. I remember him screaming at me that I had ruined his Air Force career. And my "AHA" moment came right then. "No," I told him. "You ruined your own career when you took a new book of checks from the desk and spent $1000 without telling me even when you knew I was paying the bills (that was a LOT of money in 1986). And if you didn't want anyone to know you beat your wife, you shouldn't have been beating your wife."
Give you credit for applauding my strength and wisdom? Getting out was survival, not wisdom. Very few women in that circumstance are capable of wisdom. I wasn't, anyway. Wisdom comes later. Strength, yes, but even getting out of bed in the morning required huge amounts of strength, not knowing exactly what kind of a mood he was going to be in.
You don't get it. You just don't get it. The only person responsible for the Stanford rape -- or any other rape was the rapist. The only person responsible for domestic abuse is the abuser. And so on. Women don't cause rape, murder or domestic abuse. Predators cause it, and they are skilled at cutting the weakest from the herd, isolating her and attacking her. If it hadn't been me in that abuse situation, it would have been his first wife or his third. It WAS his first wife and his third. If the eloquent Stanford rape victim hadn't been raped, it would have been someone else at that party or maybe the next party he attended. You can't PREVENT rape or domestic violence, murder, stalking, burglary etc. You can do your best to protect yourself, but if someone for some reason has singled you out, they will get you sooner or later. That's on THEM, not on their victim. You still don't seem to understand that.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Kooky, you've "liked" my post- I didn't mean you. I'm not going to apologise for that because I think your posts have been offensive and at times, cruel. I don't know what has driven you to post all the things you have especially when speaking directly to DV and sexual assault survivors. Nurse after nurse has told you they are offended and/or sickened. I am both. Just stop it?
Separately, I do wonder if anyone who needs the tea analogy to understand consent will never understand it.
We still don't know what goes on behind their closed doors, though. Maybe they have seen the light after having been counseled by their clergy or whoever. We don't know.
Ugh... your thought process disgusts me. WHY the heck do you feel the need to give these people the benefit of the doubt??? It is clearly displayed to the PUBLIC, their stance. And you know what, given what their son has done, they deserve the negative publicity and judgement.
I have a son- and since his birth, I know what he is capable of. If I ever found out he put his hands on a woman, I'd put him in jail myself. I would NOT have his back and would be there to testify against him (again, women know what their children are capable of. Who knows their children better than their own mother?!). But I don't want that for my son. I teach him to be gentle to women, to open doors, to act with respect... because of these efforts, he picks it up.
It angers me how you actually think that rape prevention is in how an individual dresses, drinks, and socializes. If there is a preditor out there, he's going to find them... REGARDLESS of these things. How many times have you tried to stand up for yourself here? Understand we live in a different day and age. Locations where the punishments are harsh, you find a low crime rate- THAT is what needs to happen here. NOT an introspective look at how women are in the current culture. People like you, are what is wrong with society (let's change women, not the society *eyeroll*) and probably why the punishments are not at the "let the punishment fit the crime" level. Sure, you have said no one deserves to be raped, but you put so much responsibility on how a woman should dress and act that you may as well say it was deserved.
I am so tired of this attitude.
So many rapes go unreported. Because our culture doesn't support those who report it. I reported mine... I did everything right. I had bruises... bleeding. I reported it immediately. I had to wait 2 HOURS for cops to come to take my report because they had more important things to do. Meanwhile, I sat there, dirty, leaves in my hair, his skin under my nails- still capable of smelling his scent on me. Feeling dirty on the inside. They didn't even take pictures... of the bite marks, the bruises, the scratches... not a single one. Then I had to go to the hospital and do that humiliating exam. Only after half a day was I finally able to shower and try to scrub myself clean.
The charges to ensue were awful. I was questioned by the investigator like it was MY FAULT. Heaven forbid your memory try to block out certain details because the brain deals with trauma by doing that. The sicko tried to contact me a couple of times even though the court ordered him not to... all he got was a warning by the judge not to do it anymore.
At the end of the day, he wasn't indicted... because he claimed I liked rough sex.
No. I don't give his mother any slack for wanting to give her son the benefit of the doubt. She knows. She is responsible for not giving him the respect and education deserving to women. His family just doesn't want their name tarnished. If they were truly repentant, they would take responsibility of this and beg forgiveness. Instead, they don't want their son to accept responsibility over the heinous crime he committed. Instead, they enable him and make excuses. UNACCEPTABLE.
Ugh... your thought process disgusts me. WHY the heck do you feel the need to give these people the benefit of the doubt??? It is clearly displayed to the PUBLIC, their stance. And you know what, given what their son has done, they deserve the negative publicity and judgement.
I have a son- and since his birth, I know what he is capable of. If I ever found out he put his hands on a woman, I'd put him in jail myself. I would NOT have his back and would be there to testify against him (again, women know what their children are capable of. Who knows their children better than their own mother?!). But I don't want that for my son. I teach him to be gentle to women, to open doors, to act with respect... because of these efforts, he picks it up.
It angers me how you actually think that rape prevention is in how an individual dresses, drinks, and socializes. If there is a preditor out there, he's going to find them... REGARDLESS of these things. How many times have you tried to stand up for yourself here? Understand we live in a different day and age. Locations where the punishments are harsh, you find a low crime rate- THAT is what needs to happen here. NOT an introspective look at how women are in the current culture. People like you, are what is wrong with society (let's change women, not the society *eyeroll*) and probably why the punishments are not at the "let the punishment fit the crime" level. Sure, you have said no one deserves to be raped, but you put so much responsibility on how a woman should dress and act that you may as well say it was deserved.
I am so tired of this attitude.
So many rapes go unreported. Because our culture doesn't support those who report it. I reported mine... I did everything right. I had bruises... bleeding. I reported it immediately. I had to wait 2 HOURS for cops to come to take my report because they had more important things to do. Meanwhile, I sat there, dirty, leaves in my hair, his skin under my nails- still capable of smelling his scent on me. Feeling dirty on the inside. They didn't even take pictures... of the bite marks, the bruises, the scratches... not a single one. Then I had to go to the hospital and do that humiliating exam. Only after half a day was I finally able to shower and try to scrub myself clean.
The charges to ensue were awful. I was questioned by the investigator like it was MY FAULT. Heaven forbid your memory try to block out certain details because the brain deals with trauma by doing that. The sicko tried to contact me a couple of times even though the court ordered him not to... all he got was a warning by the judge not to do it anymore.
At the end of the day, he wasn't indicted... because he claimed I liked rough sex.
No. I don't give his mother any slack for wanting to give her son the benefit of the doubt. She knows. She is responsible for not giving him the respect and education deserving to women. His family just doesn't want their name tarnished. If they were truly repentant, they would take responsibility of this and beg forgiveness. Instead, they don't want their son to accept responsibility over the heinous crime he committed. Instead, they enable him and make excuses. UNACCEPTABLE.
Kooky, you've "liked" my post- I didn't mean you. I'm not going to apologise for that because I think your posts have been offensive and at times, cruel. I don't know what has driven you to post all the things you have especially when speaking directly to DV and sexual assault survivors. Nurse after nurse has told you they are offended and/or sickened. I am both. Just stop it?
Separately, I do wonder if anyone who needs the tea analogy to understand consent will never understand it.
I do not know what the tea analogy is. I am still for mininurseintraining to explain her fedora remark and for Libby to tell me how to be a Christian, too.
When I said I applauded them, or they were not to blame, or didn't deserve to be victims of crime? Which of these are cruel and offensive? I really want to understand, so please do try to make a simple answer that I can grasp. I have explained myself here numerous times, to no avail, I have stated that I am learning new information here from some of you, but nothing is good enough. When I say that we don't know what goes on in the Turner household, we really don't. We are not there. We are not bugging their home and we aren't flies on the wall. Apparently, people don't see the possibility of the Turners or me changing. Once categorized, always categorized, rightly or wrongly.
Anyone who thinks they know what goes on in the Turners' home is the type who will KNOW someone is guilty of something without hearing any evidence. I hope none of you ever get that type on your jury when you are accused of some crime.
Ugh... your thought process disgusts me. WHY the heck do you feel the need to give these people the benefit of the doubt??? It is clearly displayed to the PUBLIC, their stance. And you know what, given what their son has done, they deserve the negative publicity and judgement.
I have a son- and since his birth, I know what he is capable of. If I ever found out he put his hands on a woman, I'd put him in jail myself. I would NOT have his back and would be there to testify against him (again, women know what their children are capable of. Who knows their children better than their own mother?!). But I don't want that for my son. I teach him to be gentle to women, to open doors, to act with respect... because of these efforts, he picks it up.
It angers me how you actually think that rape prevention is in how an individual dresses, drinks, and socializes. If there is a preditor out there, he's going to find them... REGARDLESS of these things. How many times have you tried to stand up for yourself here? Understand we live in a different day and age. Locations where the punishments are harsh, you find a low crime rate- THAT is what needs to happen here. NOT an introspective look at how women are in the current culture. People like you, are what is wrong with society (let's change women, not the society *eyeroll*) and probably why the punishments are not at the "let the punishment fit the crime" level. Sure, you have said no one deserves to be raped, but you put so much responsibility on how a woman should dress and act that you may as well say it was deserved.
I am so tired of this attitude.
So many rapes go unreported. Because our culture doesn't support those who report it. I reported mine... I did everything right. I had bruises... bleeding. I reported it immediately. I had to wait 2 HOURS for cops to come to take my report because they had more important things to do. Meanwhile, I sat there, dirty, leaves in my hair, his skin under my nails- still capable of smelling his scent on me. Feeling dirty on the inside. They didn't even take pictures... of the bite marks, the bruises, the scratches... not a single one. Then I had to go to the hospital and do that humiliating exam. Only after half a day was I finally able to shower and try to scrub myself clean.
The charges to ensue were awful. I was questioned by the investigator like it was MY FAULT. Heaven forbid your memory try to block out certain details because the brain deals with trauma by doing that. The sicko tried to contact me a couple of times even though the court ordered him not to... all he got was a warning by the judge not to do it anymore.
At the end of the day, he wasn't indicted... because he claimed I liked rough sex.
No. I don't give his mother any slack for wanting to give her son the benefit of the doubt. She knows. She is responsible for not giving him the respect and education deserving to women. His family just doesn't want their name tarnished. If they were truly repentant, they would take responsibility of this and beg forgiveness. Instead, they don't want their son to accept responsibility over the heinous crime he committed. Instead, they enable him and make excuses. UNACCEPTABLE.
Would anyone here forgive him or his parents if they begged forgiveness and took responsibility?
We don't know what his mother knows or what his parents did or did not do in his upbringing. We can guess, we can assume, we can surmise, but we don't know for sure.
I am very sorry for your horrible experience. Why were no pictures taken by police? Sounds plain ridiculous. Or they were inexperienced or they expected the hospital team to do that. Again, I am so very sorry, DesiHonor.
What should investigators and lawyers do differently? To make it less horrible for the victim?
Would anyone here forgive him or his parents if they begged forgiveness and took responsibility?
I don't feel like it's up to me to forgive him or his parents. That right belongs the victim. I feel like if he took responsibility (admits that he is sick and seeks life long therapy/help, and the parents acknowledge their role (or lack of role) in his upbringing that brought them to this place, we would be having a very different conversation right now.
I don't feel like it's up to me to forgive him or his parents. That right belongs the victim. I feel like if he took responsibility (admits that he is sick and seeks life long therapy/help, and the parents acknowledge their role (or lack of role) in his upbringing that brought them to this place, we would be having a very different conversation right now.
Entirely different. But it is self-destructive, not healing, to forgive someone who is still actively damaging you. If a rapist accepted responsibility for his own action, he wouldn't choose to drag the victim through a year-long trial that slices her open and dissects her in front of the jury.
A person who is truly sorry for something they did that harmed another person will try to make amends, not continue to torture the victim. A person who is truly sorry does not call rape "promiscuity." A person who is sorry they are being punished (oh no, the steak! the swimming! hasn't he suffered enough!) is not truly repentant, but he has so much support in his inner circle he has little reason to examine his actions in the first place.
There is absolutely no reasonable room for doubt regarding the Stanford rapist's refusal to accept responsibility for his crimes.
I do not know what the tea analogy is. I am still for mininurseintraining to explain her fedora remark and for Libby to tell me how to be a Christian, too.
When I said I applauded them, or they were not to blame, or didn't deserve to be victims of crime? Which of these are cruel and offensive? I really want to understand, so please do try to make a simple answer that I can grasp. I have explained myself here numerous times, to no avail, I have stated that I am learning new information here from some of you, but nothing is good enough. When I say that we don't know what goes on in the Turner household, we really don't. We are not there. We are not bugging their home and we aren't flies on the wall. Apparently, people don't see the possibility of the Turners or me changing. Once categorized, always categorized, rightly or wrongly.
Anyone who thinks they know what goes on in the Turners' home is the type who will KNOW someone is guilty of something without hearing any evidence. I hope none of you ever get that type on your jury when you are accused of some crime.
Multiple posters have tried numerous times to explain what parts of your posts are offensive towards women, rape survivors, domestic violence survivors, and human beings in general, to no avail. I'm not sure there is an answer simple enough for you to grasp. You seem firmly rooted in your ignorance, all the while railing that it is everyone else who is wrong. Don't know what else to tell you.
No one has claimed to know exactly what goes on in the Turner home. However, as posters have stated, again, numerous times, the content of their defense of their son given at the trial can reasonably lead a person to believe that they think he did nothing wrong, and also that their son possibly, in some part, behaved the way he did because of deficiencies in their parenting. No one can be 100% sure about this, of course. But their comments were inflammatory enough towards the victim, and glossed so far past the true actions of their son, that again, one can reasonably find them repulsive.
elkpark
14,633 Posts
(That's a joke, right?)