I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
The point that you continually seem to miss is this:
Yes, everyone should take reasonable precautions against harmful things. Not dressing certain ways and drinking at parties should not be considered a reasonable precaution. And when we say these are reasonable precautions, we're actively hurting victims of sexual assault, because we're leaving room for fault, where there IS NONE. When our knee jerk reaction to these incidents is "what was she wearing?", "did she go to his room?", "why didn't he have a chaperone?" - we're not helping anyone or anything. We're doing actual, real, psychological damage to every single assault victim out there. We are telling them that it IS their fault, at least in part, because if they had only done x, y, or z, it might not have happened. It's blame shifting.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
When did I ever say that some rapes are OK?
When did I say "being from a bad neighborhood is the only way to get mugged"?
My point was and is that behaving sensibly can help prevent some rapes. I have been informed here and have duly noted that this doesn't necessarily always prevent trouble. Of course it doesn't.
You said that when you stopped walking in bad neighborhoods, you stopped getting attacked, and you stated that it seemed sensible to you to avoid bad neighborhoods in the hope of avoiding problems.
You said that SOME rapes, attacks or assaults weren't the fault of the victim, which is the same as saying that some are.
Your point is that behaving sensibly can help prevent some rapes -- but you're not talking about the rapist behaving sensibly. You're talking about how the victim having behaved more sensibly could have prevented her rape.
You STILL don't get it. Man, your attitude toward women really sucks.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Not much of a response, Mini. I wrote a great deal and you respond by making it seem like a crime to believe in God.
?????
You wrote a great deal, most of which makes little sense. And you spout off about your Born Again Christian values, using that as an excuse to blame rape victims for rape rather than blaming the rapist. You may be quite religious, but if you're an example of your religion, you're making the whole religion seem quite unattractive. And, since there are more Christians in this country than non-Christians, you're getting an awful lot of disagreement from. Your co-religionists. You might want to think about that.
When did I say "being from a bad neighborhood is the only way to get mugged"?
My point was and is that behaving sensibly can help prevent some rapes. I have been informed here and have duly noted that this doesn't necessarily always prevent trouble. Of course it doesn't.
Men who get raped are just as damaged as women who are raped. I have had them as patients in jail. Guess what my boss told me was the treatment regimen when I asked (when I encountered my first male reporting he'd been raped and didn't know what to do exactly). "Nothing".
The law enforcement agency that ran the jail where I worked did not provide a rape kit/ER procedure, no screening for STD' or even HIV. No psychological care. NOTHING. I was sickened and appalled. They might have been convicted of some awful crime, but how are they going to become useful, rehabilitated members of society when they are savaged and treated like pig slop? I think jails and prisons should be sued by these victims for forcing them to be there but not keeping them safe. Now you know how I feel about that.
Inmates and prisoners who get raped in custody are either "soft", that is, they look young and vulnerable - like Brock Turner, or they accept an offer to be some other inmate's "*****" and get the benefit of being protected by that bigger,stronger inmate, or they are known/suspected to be "baby rapers" and rapers of women. Men in jail have wives, mothers, daughters, and other females they love and respect and care about. They tend not to like the rapists and molesters and monstrous violators too well and mete out punishment on their own terms often enough. Shivs, mop handles, fists and feet, and sometimes their memberes. You've heard of jailhouse justice? That's an example of it.
"Soft" is the term used by officers at that jail, not my term.
What can men do to prevent rape, oh great one?
You've used you wisdom on here to tell us how women can reduce or even eliminate her chances of getting rape, how about you share your wisdom with the men on this forum to get rid of their chances of rape and other sexual assaults???
Are you a fedora wearer? You seem to make this now into a sob story about criminal males in jail being raped...... About their innocent ........but a cardigan wearing overly intoxicated college woman who cannot consent and is passed out drunk is a family shaming, stupid ****?
You may not have called her those words but your tone on here sure seems to point towards that. Your words are damaging at best evil at worst.
You are the one who was discussing penalties for Turner and I responded to you. How is that off topic?
I know there are problems with the death penalty. But a few months in jail is too little for Turner and 14 years in state prison most likely won't cure him and will only cost the taxpayers money.
I think it is not unreasonable to gravely punish violent predators, those who do bodily harm to others, who seriously, gravely psychologically mess up their victims. The death penalty does that and can give closure to the victims and their families and friends and to society as a whole.
OK, you have your opinion and I have mine. They differ. The world still goes around. And just because almost the entire Western world has abolished capital punishment does not mean it has to be that way or should be that way. You have lived long enough, I guess, to know that beliefs, trends, fashion, mores, customs, laws change. They come and go and come back again and go again, and so on.
The Manson family and Manson himself should have been executed instead of being put in prison for the past 30+ years. How much has that cost the taxpayers of California? And Parole hearings attended every time by Sharon Tate's sister? How much time and money and energy has she spent on going to these hearings to make sure they all stay incarcerated? What kind of life is that for her?
When did I ever say that some rapes are OK?
When did I say "being from a bad neighborhood is the only way to get mugged"?
My point was and is that behaving sensibly can help prevent some rapes. I have been informed here and have duly noted that this doesn't necessarily always prevent trouble. Of course it doesn't.
Men who get raped are just as damaged as women who are raped. I have had them as patients in jail. Guess what my boss told me was the treatment regimen when I asked (when I encountered my first male reporting he'd been raped and didn't know what to do exactly). "Nothing".
The law enforcement agency that ran the jail where I worked did not provide a rape kit/ER procedure, no screening for STD' or even HIV. No psychological care. NOTHING. I was sickened and appalled. They might have been convicted of some awful crime, but how are they going to become useful, rehabilitated members of society when they are savaged and treated like pig slop? I think jails and prisons should be sued by these victims for forcing them to be there but not keeping them safe. Now you know how I feel about that.
Inmates and prisoners who get raped in custody are either "soft", that is, they look young and vulnerable - like Brock Turner, or they accept an offer to be some other inmate's "*****" and get the benefit of being protected by that bigger,stronger inmate, or they are known/suspected to be "baby rapers" and rapers of women. Men in jail have wives, mothers, daughters, and other females they love and respect and care about. They tend not to like the rapists and molesters and monstrous violators too well and mete out punishment on their own terms often enough. Shivs, mop handles, fists and feet, and sometimes their memberes. You've heard of jailhouse justice? That's an example of it.
"Soft" is the term used by officers at that jail, not my term.
You go directly from advocating for the death penalty to getting all outraged about offenders who are raped in prison are not being treated as well as you think they should be? Is your level of cognitive dissonance really that high? Gee, maybe if we executed those guys, they wouldn't have to suffer the horror of being raped in prison (and not getting sympathetic treatment from the prison staff).
And you seem to have a lot more outrage and sympathy for the men getting raped in prison than you've shown here for the Stanford rape victim, or women rape victims in general. Maybe those men dressed provocatively! Maybe they had imbibed too much prison hooch! Maybe they were behaving flirtatiously! Maybe they had led the rapist to believe that they might be interested in consensual sex! Maybe they had gone to someone's cell with him and then changed their minds! Maybe they asked for it!
When did I say "being from a bad neighborhood is the only way to get mugged"?
My point was and is that behaving sensibly can help prevent some rapes. I have been informed here and have duly noted that this doesn't necessarily always prevent trouble. Of course it doesn't.
Men who get raped are just as damaged as women who are raped. I have had them as patients in jail. Guess what my boss told me was the treatment regimen when I asked (when I encountered my first male reporting he'd been raped and didn't know what to do exactly). "Nothing".
The law enforcement agency that ran the jail where I worked did not provide a rape kit/ER procedure, no screening for STD' or even HIV. No psychological care. NOTHING. I was sickened and appalled. They might have been convicted of some awful crime, but how are they going to become useful, rehabilitated members of society when they are savaged and treated like pig slop? I think jails and prisons should be sued by these victims for forcing them to be there but not keeping them safe. Now you know how I feel about that.
Inmates and prisoners who get raped in custody are either "soft", that is, they look young and vulnerable - like Brock Turner, or they accept an offer to be some other inmate's "*****" and get the benefit of being protected by that bigger,stronger inmate, or they are known/suspected to be "baby rapers" and rapers of women. Men in jail have wives, mothers, daughters, and other females they love and respect and care about. They tend not to like the rapists and molesters and monstrous violators too well and mete out punishment on their own terms often enough. Shivs, mop handles, fists and feet, and sometimes their memberes. You've heard of jailhouse justice? That's an example of it.
"Soft" is the term used by officers at that jail, not my term.
Using your logic if women can avoid being raped by watching what they wear and where they go, then men in jail could avoid being raped by not committed crimes and ended up in jail, right? So its their own fault by not being more sensible. Why the double standard?
He has admitted he is a proponent of the double standard. He is proud of that fact and calls it being "old fashioned." Many of us believe that holding such a double standard makes one not "old fashioned," but sexist, misogynistic, and cold hearted. But you know, syntax.
The point that you continually seem to miss is this:
Yes, everyone should take reasonable precautions against harmful things. Not dressing certain ways and drinking at parties should not be considered a reasonable precaution. And when we say these are reasonable precautions, we're actively hurting victims of sexual assault, because we're leaving room for fault, where there IS NONE. When our knee jerk reaction to these incidents is "what was she wearing?", "did she go to his room?", "why didn't he have a chaperone?" - we're not helping anyone or anything. We're doing actual, real, psychological damage to every single assault victim out there. We are telling them that it IS their fault, at least in part, because if they had only done x, y, or z, it might not have happened. It's blame shifting.
I don't want to hurt anyone, especially those already in pain.
Maybe you can tell me what reasonable precautions against rape include, since intoxication isn't one and visually stimulating men isn't one. And I am sincerely wanting to know what your thinking is on this because I apparently don't know and it is important, so please tell me.
Using your logic if women can avoid being raped by watching what they wear and where they go, then men in jail could avoid being raped by not committed crimes and ended up in jail, right? So its their own fault by not being more sensible. Why the double standard?
They wouldn't be raped in jail if they weren't there, would they? No double standard on this.
Do you think raped men in jail should not be treated? At the least be checked for STD's? Offered counseling? You surely believe in treatment for raped women, how about men?
You go directly from advocating for the death penalty to getting all outraged about offenders who are raped in prison are not being treated as well as you think they should be? Is your level of cognitive dissonance really that high? Gee, maybe if we executed those guys, they wouldn't have to suffer the horror of being raped in prison (and not getting sympathetic treatment from the prison staff).
And you seem to have a lot more outrage and sympathy for the men getting raped in prison than you've shown here for the Stanford rape victim, or women rape victims in general. Maybe those men dressed provocatively! Maybe they had imbibed too much prison hooch! Maybe they were behaving flirtatiously! Maybe they had led the rapist to believe that they might be interested in consensual sex! Maybe they had gone to someone's cell with him and then changed their minds! Maybe they asked for it!
"Seem" is the key word. I have sympathy for victims, period.
The raped men I saw got no treatment at all. And, yes, if they were dead, they'd not need treatment.
Maybe they did do some of the things you said. So did they deserve to be raped?
ItsThatJenGirl, CNA
1,978 Posts
The point that you continually seem to miss is this:
Yes, everyone should take reasonable precautions against harmful things. Not dressing certain ways and drinking at parties should not be considered a reasonable precaution. And when we say these are reasonable precautions, we're actively hurting victims of sexual assault, because we're leaving room for fault, where there IS NONE. When our knee jerk reaction to these incidents is "what was she wearing?", "did she go to his room?", "why didn't he have a chaperone?" - we're not helping anyone or anything. We're doing actual, real, psychological damage to every single assault victim out there. We are telling them that it IS their fault, at least in part, because if they had only done x, y, or z, it might not have happened. It's blame shifting.