Should nurses be getting involved in the Reopen America protests nationwide?

[A Hit With The Ladies]

Check this out:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8235127/Defiant-healthcare-workers-clash-anti-lockdown-protesters-Colorado.html

I'm actually broadly sympathetic to the protesters. When you have 22 million Americans unemployed, massive lines at food banks, and even more projected layoffs, even a Second Great Depression, people are going to have had it. Even nurses and other hospital workers cannot get paid if the economy tanks and there's no money cycling through the U.S. system.

I think the quarantines have gone on way too long. We should have gone the Sweden herd immunity model in the first place. If people are still that scared of this Coronavirus they ought to quarantine themselves. The rest of the country shouldn't have to keep catering to the susceptible minority much longer. I'm grateful that I live in Texas and my governor seems committed to reopening our state in early May, whether hell or high water.

[Silver_Rik, ASN, RN]

On 4/20/2020 at 12:08 PM, juniper222 said:

What was Sweden's response? I'll tell you......NOTHING. Touting their socialized system as the reason is just a huge miss.

And try to steer clear of personal insults. You know..forum rules.

I think you’re missing the point

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

6 hours ago, cartwrk said:

Sweden is a country of 10 million people. Some suggest the Swedish experiment is paying off. And the ICU in Stockholm is not overwhelmed. The hospital has beds to spare.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-swedish-experiment-looks-like-it-s-paying-off

The Spectator is comprable to quality to the New York Post...a rag of the same caliber. As of today Sweden has 164,916 deaths up 227 from the day before. In a country of only 10 million.

[Daisy4RN]

3 hours ago, HeartlandRN said:

I don't see you here to do anything but push an extreme political agenda and spout uncited hysteria. There are better avenues for that than a professional nursing forum. You might consider employing them because this has gotten really tiresome.

isn't that exactly what you have been doing since you first joined yesterday.

We here in the US cannot compare ourselves to other countries and do what they do and expect the same results, we are a very different country in many ways.

IMO some people are letting their political views get in the way of common sense. It is just not going to be feasible/sustainable to have people not work and just sit at home collecting a gov check, you do realize that those funds come from tax payers, if people are off work guess what, no taxes being paid. Not only that we will have other issues like crime, depression etc.

I know this article in not about the US but it is very similar to what Trump proposed for each state to follow as they see fit. Every state, and even within those individual states, there is very different situations. This model for opening makes sense!

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-traffic-route-economic-lockdown.html

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

2 hours ago, Sour Lemon said:

That's a rather rosy point of view, but I suspect that you've only heard part of the story from a select group of people. Interestingly enough, I can find no New Zealand news site that allows readers to comment. I do see plenty of articles that suggest things are not "jolly happy sunshine".

Simon Bridges is the leader of the opposition who scarily enough has been channelling Donald Trump in much of what is being said. The consensus is that if he had been leading the country instead of Jacinda Adern, we would be seeing a much higher death and infection rate.

Its certainly not all jolly happy sunshine, personally after four weeks of lock down, all I want to do is see my family and friends, and give them a seriously big hug.

That said, we now have some concrete evidence that by locking down the country for four weeks its reversed the infection rates, we went from the numbers of infected doubling every 1-2 days currently down to single figures, I think as of yesterday, 2 confirmed cases and 3 probable cases.

[guest1146168]

7 minutes ago, Daisy4RN said:

isn't that exactly what you have been doing since you first joined yesterday.

We here in the US cannot compare ourselves to other countries and do what they do and expect the same results, we are a very different country in many ways.

IMO some people are letting their political views get in the way of common sense. It is just not going to be feasible/sustainable to have people not work and just sit at home collecting a gov check, you do realize that those funds come from tax payers, if people are off work guess what, no taxes being paid. Not only that we will have other issues like crime, depression etc.

I know this article in not about the US but it is very similar to what Trump proposed for each state to follow as they see fit. Every state, and even within those individual states, there is very different situations. This model for opening makes sense!

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-traffic-route-economic-lockdown.html

My "agenda" is to protect the public (and our profession) with the best scientifically and medically sound information we have, rather than to join in with a band of hee-haws protesting Governors who have been working tirelessly to protect the citizenry insisting they have answers they obviously don't.

Here's a few questions perhaps Daisy has the answers to that nobody else does or can Google an opinion piece for us.

1. what IS the infection rate? you have no idea because there is no widespread testing

2. how will you contain it if you can't test and trace the infected on a wide-scale basis.

3. Do antibodies mean a person can not be re-infected? What if they can?

4. what is the long-term care and costs of what would appear to be very significant after affects ranging from permanent pulmonary/cardiac/organ damage to ICU PSTD>

5. how will you "protect" the "vulnerable" populations in LTACs, SNF's, prisons, psych care, etc exactly when there are outside entrants daily that work there (which might occur to you is how they became infected in the first place) if you have no ttin capability?

6. What will the "costs" and economic damange be long-term if the virus and deaths continue to spread to pre social distancing and what kind of economy do you think you'll have?

The one thing we DO know from our experience and that of other nations is that social distancing in fact has worked. I reject the assertion that the radical right, which clearly has no answers, has the right to force a false and disasterous decision that we must choose or citizens health or the economy

Goodbye now, Daisy. We're done. Happy googling.

[Wuzzie]

3 hours ago, SummerGarden said:

No, it does not

Yes it does. She’s making a mockery of people who are terrified for their future and the future of their kids.

[HandsOffMySteth]

1 hour ago, Daisy4RN said:

isn't that exactly what you have been doing since you first joined yesterday.

We here in the US cannot compare ourselves to other countries and do what they do and expect the same results, we are a very different country in many ways.

IMO some people are letting their political views get in the way of common sense. It is just not going to be feasible/sustainable to have people not work and just sit at home collecting a gov check, you do realize that those funds come from tax payers, if people are off work guess what, no taxes being paid. Not only that we will have other issues like crime, depression etc.

I know this article in not about the US but it is very similar to what Trump proposed for each state to follow as they see fit. Every state, and even within those individual states, there is very different situations. This model for opening makes sense!

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-traffic-route-economic-lockdown.html

AND present their side of the story as the only valid opinion of professionals while insulting those that disagree and calling into question whether or not they are real nurses. There ARE both sides of this issue presented in this thread which shows that they do not have a monopoly on who is more correct.

The personal insults such as calling someone uneducated or a troll shows an utter lack of control over ones emotions. If anything, that presents a total lack of professionalism and maturity unbecoming a medical professional.

While debating these issues we should remain civil and post opinions that are not filled with this childish behavior.EVERYONE, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM INFLAMMATORY REMARKS!?

[Daisy4RN]

30 minutes ago, HeartlandRN said:

My "agenda" is to protect the public (and our profession) with the best scientifically and medically sound information we have, rather than to join in with a band of hee-haws protesting Governors who have been working tirelessly to protect the citizenry insisting they have answers they obviously don't.

Here's a few questions perhaps Daisy has the answers to that nobody else does or can Google an opinion piece for us.

1. what IS the infection rate? you have no idea because there is no widespread testing

2. how will you contain it if you can't test and trace the infected on a wide-scale basis.

3. Do antibodies mean a person can not be re-infected? What if they can?

4. what is the long-term care and costs of what would appear to be very significant after affects ranging from permanent pulmonary/cardiac/organ damage to ICU PSTD>

5. how will you "protect" the "vulnerable" populations in LTACs, SNF's, prisons, psych care, etc exactly when there are outside entrants daily that work there (which might occur to you is how they became infected in the first place) if you have no ttin capability?

6. What will the "costs" and economic damange be long-term if the virus and deaths continue to spread to pre social distancing and what kind of economy do you think you'll have?

The one thing we DO know from our experience and that of other nations is that social distancing in fact has worked. I reject the assertion that the radical right, which clearly has no answers, has the right to force a false and disasterous decision that we must choose or citizens health or the economy

Goodbye now, Daisy. We're done. Happy googling.

As others have stated this should be a happy medium type of reopen as to not implode the entire country. I could ask you those same questions re: the short and long term economic affect this will have and you would not be able to answer. I respect everyone's right to their own opinion. It seems that you dont as you refer to people who disagree with you as heehaws etc. I think we all have the same "agenda" but have different views on how to achieve that. Also, I dont "Google" everything bc they also have an agenda and I like to research all types of news/articles in order to get a broad range of info and you need to use other search engines to find that, or at least jump back pages on Google. This (coronavirus) is hard on everyone in different ways. Personally I may not agree with someone else's opinion but I know that we are all in this together, know people see the world differently, try to respect that, and hope that this all ends soon and my opinions stated here reflect that; the best way to keep everyone safe while at the same time keeping the country from imploding.

[Workitinurfava, BSN, RN]

The virus will spread, some will die some and some won't. Opening things up will increase the spread. More people will die, etc. A vaccine is needed. People need to get their affairs in order, especially the ones protesting for opening places back up. All I am talking about is happening now.

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, Daisy4RN said:

isn't that exactly what you have been doing since you first joined yesterday.

We here in the US cannot compare ourselves to other countries and do what they do and expect the same results, we are a very different country in many ways.

IMO some people are letting their political views get in the way of common sense. It is just not going to be feasible/sustainable to have people not work and just sit at home collecting a gov check, you do realize that those funds come from tax payers, if people are off work guess what, no taxes being paid. Not only that we will have other issues like crime, depression etc.

I know this article in not about the US but it is very similar to what Trump proposed for each state to follow as they see fit. Every state, and even within those individual states, there is very different situations. This model for opening makes sense!

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-traffic-route-economic-lockdown.html

No, it's not what that poster has been doing.

It's actually rather easy to review the thread and see that the poster you quoted is making comments supported by the current science and public health recommendations. Even now people are encouraging reckless behavior that is not compliant with Trump's official criteria for economic reopening. Are you defending that reckless thinking?

[toomuchbaloney]

52 minutes ago, juniper222 said:

AND present their side of the story as the only valid opinion of professionals while insulting those that disagree and calling into question whether or not they are real nurses. There ARE both sides of this issue presented in this thread which shows that they do not have a monopoly on who is more correct.

The personal insults such as calling someone uneducated or a troll shows an utter lack of control over ones emotions. If anything, that presents a total lack of professionalism and maturity unbecoming a medical professional.

While debating these issues we should remain civil and post opinions that are not filled with this childish behavior.EVERYONE, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM INFLAMMATORY REMARKS!?

So only you get to make inflammatory remarks before you implore everyone to be nice and the moderators to step in? Isn't that a nice strategy. Because there's nothing inflammatory about your remarks at all, ever, right?

[Sour Lemon]

2 hours ago, Tenebrae said:

Simon Bridges is the leader of the opposition who scarily enough has been channelling Donald Trump in much of what is being said. The consensus is that if he had been leading the country instead of Jacinda Adern, we would be seeing a much higher death and infection rate.

Its certainly not all jolly happy sunshine, personally after four weeks of lock down, all I want to do is see my family and friends, and give them a seriously big hug.

That said, we now have some concrete evidence that by locking down the country for four weeks its reversed the infection rates, we went from the numbers of infected doubling every 1-2 days currently down to single figures, I think as of yesterday, 2 confirmed cases and 3 probable cases.

5 hours ago, CampyCamp said:

New Zealand has a much better approach. (Obviously their geography helps) People are healthy and happy. Paid and fed. There are many articles about it. I have friends there and their experiences are night and day to ours.

I don't doubt that there have been positive effects from New Zealand's lock down, I just doubt the simplicity of everyone being "healthy, happy, paid, and fed".

In any case, I'm hoping your good outcome continues and economic recovery goes well too.