I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
Specializes in Internal Medicine, Geriatric Medicine.
Here's my take for me personally: The nurse can be a little green alien as long as the nurse is competent to perform the job. If I'm uncomfortable with said nurse, I'll ask for another nurse. If the nurse is uncomfortable, fine get someone who is competent who isn't uncomfortable, but then get out of my room--if you can't look at my female parts because you have male parts, I don't want you because you know what: I have female parts all over the place.
As nurse, if a patient prefers someone else, fine. It's the patient's right. If the patient seems uncomfortable with me but doesn't say anything I ask the patient or the family. No skin off my nose--I got plenty to do.
I tell you what I've been cathed a few times and the best caths are after I am knocked out cold before surgery and I don't have to feel it go in. A male nurse could cath me and a dozen more male nurses or students could watch for all I care. I had only one cath done while awake and it hurt do much I didn't care who it was I just wanted it over with.
Just this last winter I had a surgery that went bad and I had to go home with a cath for 10 days. It was one if the most terrible experiences I ever had. I had to go and get a scan done of my bladder before they took it out. The guy that was doing the scan was able to take the cath out as soon as the scan was cleared. I tell you he was my favorite person in the world at that moment in time. Never in a million years did I care he was a guy. I was freed from my torture that is all that mattered to me at that point.
I managed to read about 200 of the comments before I gave up and came to the end so that I can add in my two pence worth.
I understand exactly where the OP is coming from. After 30+ years as a nurse including 20 years in ED I have NEVER catheterised a female and I have no intentions of starting - plenty of women around to do that. I was once told it was easy, you find the privy parts and it is just below that..... I can't find the privy parts with a miners helmet and a map - ask my wife. As an aside, I don't do routine ECG's on females either.
This is a cultural thing people, it is not a USA versus the world, although some of you seem to be taking it that way. Some of you have been downright nasty to the OP and we have even had someone bring in that great put-down - "until you have pushed a baby out you don't know what you are talking about". Possibly one of the most sexist and patronising comments I have seen.
The OP stated that he was placed in a gynae ward as his first post - I can think of nothing worse and this was 23 years ago. I'm impressed he lasted 6 months.
Remember, the world does not work the way the US works. Some of us have differences and some of those differences are gender and some people and countries treat these things differently.
What, are we supposed to add psychic to our superpowers? The patient has to take some responsibility for themselves at some point.
If they are too afraid too talk to you, get someone else to ask them.
YES.
Or use your nursing skills. Have you never sensed if a patient is confused or scared? Please. The OP claims 23 years nursing experience ranging from loco parentis to loco school nurse to loco...
As a female nurse I understand your quandry. Since you have to have a female chaperone its probably easier for the female to do it and for you to do something to assist the female coworker. Most hospitals I have worked at the patient care tech/critical care tech/CNA did the caths and to avoid having to pull 2 people off the floor the girls did the girls and the male patients were asked who they preferred. I only see it as an issue if you were the only qualified person (had students or something to chaperone) and you refused.
Here's my issue with the way your hospital does this and it can be looked at from multiple perspectives:
1:It assumes ALL women will have an issue with male nurses and men may/may not have an issue with females
2: Women don't need a choice, but men can have one.
Both situations are equally inappropriate and serve only to further unnecessary divisions in the absence of documented or observable patient discomfort/choice. Also the wording used in the way people ask the question of patients influences decision making by presupposing there is something inherently different or strange about a male cathing a female or a female cathing a male. Same thing happens with nursing students who are male when the patients are asked, "we have students...would you be okay if yours was male?" If the same questions are not asked for every student of every gender, something must be outside the expected norm for it to be asked in the first place.
After 30+ years as a nurse including 20 years in ED I have NEVER catheterised a female and I have no intentions of starting - plenty of women around to do that. I was once told it was easy, you find the privy parts and it is just below that..... I can't find the privy parts with a miners helmet and a map - ask my wife.
I'm sorry but this made me laugh-- your poor wife.
I would be very angry if a nurse of 30+ years continued to ask me to cath their female patients and it has 0 to do with the patient themselves. I would eventually tell you to do it yourself. Can you seriously imagine how your patient feels if you went and got someone else (a female) to do this? She's going to think she did something wrong or her lady parts smells or just made you uncomfortable. Bravo for probably making your patient feel like a burdon on you and making her feel as if she did something wrong.
I built a patient/nurse relationship with you, not this random chick coming in saying "HEYYY I am Sally mcCathPants and I am going to CATH you." I'm going to wonder why you couldn't do it. All my trust will probably go right out the window.
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
Quote,Grumpyrn>>>>I was once told it was easy, you find the privy parts and it is just below that..... I can't find the privy parts with a miners helmet and a map - ask my wife.
Winning the internet today!!!! And my condolences to Mrs Grumpy
I'm sorry but this made me laugh-- your poor wife.
I would be very angry if a nurse of 30+ years continued to ask me to cath their female patients and it has 0 to do with the patient themselves. I would eventually tell you to do it yourself. Can you seriously imagine how your patient feels if you went and got someone else (a female) to do this? She's going to think she did something wrong or her lady parts smells or just made you uncomfortable. Bravo for probably making your patient feel like a burdon on you and making her feel as if she did something wrong.
I built a patient/nurse relationship with you, not this random chick coming in saying "HEYYY I am Sally mcCathPants and I am going to CATH you." I'm going to wonder why you couldn't do it. All my trust will probably go right out the window.
There are so many assumptions in this post its dizzying.
I'm sorry but this made me laugh-- your poor wife.
That was the idea.
I would be very angry if a nurse of 30+ years continued to ask me to cath their female patients and it has 0 to do with the patient themselves. I would eventually tell you to do it yourself.
Let me make this clear, I am not asking you to catheterise my female patients, I am just not doing it. It will be a female who does this or it will not get done. This is nothing to do with laziness or anything else and everything to do with culture. In the UK I am not expected to catheterise females - this is a female task. I will do all the males. CULTURE.
Can you seriously imagine how your patient feels if you went and got someone else (a female) to do this? She's going to think she did something wrong or her lady parts smells or just made you uncomfortable. Bravo for probably making your patient feel like a burdon on you and making her feel as if she did something wrong.
I built a patient/nurse relationship with you, not this random chick coming in saying "HEYYY I am Sally mcCathPants and I am going to CATH you." I'm going to wonder why you couldn't do it. All my trust will probably go right out the window.
No, no, no, no. The patient, if they think about it at all, will be glad a female did it. Again CULTURE.
This may seem strange to American nurses but there is still a divide between what is expected of male and female nurses. A female nurse can catheterise a male but a male nurse would very rarely catheterise a female.
I have noticed on this thread people talking about "intimate" care. This would be anything to do with genitals - yes we may be prudes but it does not give people the right to abuse us.
When working with females I would quite happily clean them but I would never do this alone, I would always have a female with me. This is for my protection, not the patients.
Been following this thread all weekend and officially give up somewhere around post 130.
OP is a boarding school nurse now, no? My timeline is reading that his experiences were almost 20 years ago. Doesn't that just make this all a MOOT point considering "culture" wherever we all may be has definately come leaps and bounds in the past two decades......
Do European patients/hospitals/ etc still have these chaperone policies/discomfort with male nurses?
This thread and this poster has sucked the life out of me but it been real peeps
IsabelK
174 Posts
Here's my take for me personally: The nurse can be a little green alien as long as the nurse is competent to perform the job. If I'm uncomfortable with said nurse, I'll ask for another nurse. If the nurse is uncomfortable, fine get someone who is competent who isn't uncomfortable, but then get out of my room--if you can't look at my female parts because you have male parts, I don't want you because you know what: I have female parts all over the place.
As nurse, if a patient prefers someone else, fine. It's the patient's right. If the patient seems uncomfortable with me but doesn't say anything I ask the patient or the family. No skin off my nose--I got plenty to do.