I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
The reason for the female/female policy was that if a male were to cath a female there had to be a female chaperone in the room and then we were short 2 people while the pt was being cathed. So for example when I worked Ortho and on noc shift we had 3 nurses, 2 CNAs and an ortho tech and being a trauma center near half a dozen ski areas we usually had 1-2 fresh post-ops amongst our 30 patients. So 1 CNA doing post-op vitals, 1 CNA answering call lights so if we had to pull 2 nurses off the floor so 1 can cath the pt and 1 can watch that leaves 27 patients for 1 nurse. Why not just have the 1 do the cath.
And I kinda misspoke about the male patients. They don't get offered a choice what I meant was either a male or female nurse can do the cath since a chaperone is not required by law if a female caths a male.
So the female/female policy is due to logistics. Does that make sense?
I can understand the 2 nurse part, we do that for all caths for sterility purposes. I don't understand the requirement for it to be 2 females when cathing a female patient, but either gender can cath a male. Even after some research, I am unaware of any such law existing, though your facility may have a specific policy in place. A couple of years ago there was a lawsuit regarding the duty to chaperone gynecological exams (and by extension any intimate procedure involving the genitals). The case was dismissed as there exists no duty to provide a chaperone unless the patient requests it and that is also the position of the American Medical Association. At the end of the day, if it works for your facility that is fine, but it doesn't do anything to advance us as nurses regardless of gender and as a profession if we enact policies like that.
hmm.. I am not a male nurse in a predominantly female field.. so I think that changes perspective. but I have thought int he past how odd it is .. how gender plays a role in our field.
I catheterize anyone, male or female. I have never had a male patient ask for a male nurse, in fact I have never had a patient request a male staff member based on gender before.
but I have had patients, usually "little old ladies" request a female to help them with hygiene, ADLS, toileting and catheterization.
in kind, I have seen female staff members assume a male is stronger and ask for his assistance more frequently in labor intensive situations.
I don't think there is a simple answer.
Do people ask for male doctors more than female? how about other professions, like a lawyer? do female waitresses make more in tips? in general men are paid more than women, in all fields.
my gyno is a male. It bothered me a little, but in truth it bothers me to have anyone peering at my genitals; male or female. That's just me.
Also like one poster said how do you listen to heart or lung sounds in female patients who have large breast? do you get someone else to do your assessment for you each time and then do you get them to chart it ?
In UK nurses do not routinely listen to heart/lungs, this is a medical task. We do not wander around with stethescopes the way American nurses do.
I can understand the 2 nurse part, we do that for all caths for sterility purposes. I don't understand the requirement for it to be 2 females when cathing a female patient, but either gender can cath a male. Even after some research, I am unaware of any such law existing, though your facility may have a specific policy in place.
In the UK the expectation is that females catheterise females and males catheterise males. There is a short course that female nurses do called - surprise surprise - 'Male Catheterisation'. There is no equivelent course for males.
A couple of years ago there was a lawsuit regarding the duty to chaperone gynecological exams (and by extension any intimate procedure involving the genitals). The case was dismissed as there exists no duty to provide a chaperone unless the patient requests it and that is also the position of the American Medical Association. At the end of the day, if it works for your facility that is fine, but it doesn't do anything to advance us as nurses regardless of gender and as a profession if we enact policies like that.
There is not a law but there is an expectation and all hopsitals/health boards will have their policies that procedures are chaperoned. I have chaperoned a male doctor doing a simple procedure on a male patient. It is to protect the clinician, NOT the patient. Remember, UK/Europe/Autralasia. We don't care what the AMA says.:)
As for advancing as professionals. We have our own ideas. Please, please, please stop judging this by your own standards. They are not applicable.
This is not a go at USA but trying (again) to remind people that we are different.
I have been around in nursing for quite some time, and there is always this thing where some male nurses would be reluctant to do certain procedures on female patients. It is no different from being a physician. They take care of male and female equally without any complaint. We have more male doctors who are in Gyn than females. I am a female nurse and I dont have any problem taking care of male patients. I insert foleys and take care of genitalia if they cant. That is why I am a nure to take care of the total patient......it is called total patient care. When I was a patient due to a MVA, my best nurse was a male nurse, he was so caring. To this day I remember him. My suggestion to you to avoid all this sexist thing is to work in an area like outpatient
In UK nurses do not routinely listen to heart/lungs, this is a medical task. We do not wander around with stethescopes the way American nurses do.
In the UK the expectation is that females catheterise females and males catheterise males. There is a short course that female nurses do called - surprise surprise - 'Male Catheterisation'. There is no equivelent course for males.
There is not a law but there is an expectation and all hopsitals/health boards will have their policies that procedures are chaperoned. I have chaperoned a male doctor doing a simple procedure on a male patient. It is to protect the clinician, NOT the patient. Remember, UK/Europe/Autralasia. We don't care what the AMA says.:)
As for advancing as professionals. We have our own ideas. Please, please, please stop judging this by your own standards. They are not applicable.
This is not a go at USA but trying (again) to remind people that we are different.
Understood, but just FYI, nurses don't "wander around" with stethoscopes around their necks...I have mines in my pocket.
LOL, I was just about to write that we don't "wander around" with them, period. We USE them
Assessment of heart/lung/bowel sounds most definitely falls under Nursing here....stethoscopes aren't just a cute fashion accessory! :)
Way back in the day (before xray confirmations were done), I took report on an incoming ICU patient who was coming to us from the GI lab. The reporting nurse told me she had just placed an NG tube, "but I didn't check placement." I replied "why not?" She said, "oh, we don't have stethoscopes down here." Still shaking my head on that one...
Working in a CCU, we didn't "wander around with them" either. They were not a fashion accessory, but an essential tool.
I do too sometimes, but with the earpieces around my neck and the bell in my pocket. Hurts my neck otherwise, at least it did when I carried something heavier than a neo/pedi steth, and old habits die hard. :)
GrumpyRN, NP
1,348 Posts
Yes, but she loves me anyway.