I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
Strange, but of the hundreds of girls I've referred to the gynaecologist (I work in schools now) they all, every single one of them, only agree to go if it's a female gynaecologist
Also - the male nurse needs a chaperone anyway, so why not let the woman do it.
I've had male gyns since I was 16. I've always found the "male nursing students can't do anything in OB rotation" to be ludicrous considering how many male gyns there are.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Been following this thread all weekend and officially give up somewhere around post 130.
OP is a boarding school nurse now, no? My timeline is reading that his experiences were almost 20 years ago. Doesn't that just make this all a MOOT point considering "culture" wherever we all may be has definately come leaps and bounds in the past two decades......
Do European patients/hospitals/ etc still have these chaperone policies/discomfort with male nurses?
This thread and this poster has sucked the life out of me but it been real peeps
I'm just wondering why the OP felt the need to even bring up the topic since 1) he's no longer working on the GYN ward, and 2) this experience was over 20 years ago. Really? If he's that emotionally scarred over the experience, I think he needs a therapist.
I think he's enjoying being a provocateur, since all of his threads, as a new member, no less, are topics related to sexual themes. Well, except for the "Reefer Madness" thread.
This situation is not just about sex. I don't think the vast, vast majority of American women who prefer female gynecologists make that choice because they think most male OBGYNs are thinking about sex the whole time.
Just curious where you're getting this data about American women gyn preference.
Since OP's experience was 20 yrs ago, it reminds me of a female in law that I had, she would have been about 60 yrs old 20 yrs ago. She told me she would only have a male GYN because she wouldn't be comfortable with a woman touching her. I've never known anyone since who sexualized a medical exam. Hated them yes, felt more comfortable with a female GYN coming from a mutual female experience yes but never sexualized it.
Since this is a cultural issue, OP must be comfortable in his own cultural skin where female nurses doing female caths are customary anyway so I guess this was about questioning North American healthcare culture?
Ah, the research and evidence to support us. Now, here is an idea. Obviously, we need more nurses to care for our patients, and we are seeing more male nurses. I say, bring them on. Do research and find out if this is a problem, and how this can be best handled. This should provide the guidance and support needed to change practice.
Here's my issue with the way your hospital does this and it can be looked at from multiple perspectives:
1:It assumes ALL women will have an issue with male nurses and men may/may not have an issue with females
2: Women don't need a choice, but men can have one.
Both situations are equally inappropriate and serve only to further unnecessary divisions in the absence of documented or observable patient discomfort/choice. Also the wording used in the way people ask the question of patients influences decision making by presupposing there is something inherently different or strange about a male cathing a female or a female cathing a male. Same thing happens with nursing students who are male when the patients are asked, "we have students...would you be okay if yours was male?" If the same questions are not asked for every student of every gender, something must be outside the expected norm for it to be asked in the first place.
The reason for the female/female policy was that if a male were to cath a female there had to be a female chaperone in the room and then we were short 2 people while the pt was being cathed. So for example when I worked Ortho and on noc shift we had 3 nurses, 2 CNAs and an ortho tech and being a trauma center near half a dozen ski areas we usually had 1-2 fresh post-ops amongst our 30 patients. So 1 CNA doing post-op vitals, 1 CNA answering call lights so if we had to pull 2 nurses off the floor so 1 can cath the pt and 1 can watch that leaves 27 patients for 1 nurse. Why not just have the 1 do the cath.
And I kinda misspoke about the male patients. They don't get offered a choice what I meant was either a male or female nurse can do the cath since a chaperone is not required by law if a female caths a male.
So the female/female policy is due to logistics. Does that make sense?
There are so many things I would like to say but for the sake of people being easily offended i will say it nicely. Man up. First of all if you come in in a car crash or accident you are getting naked... Completely naked. Not in front of everyone but at least me so I can see that you dont have a rib or bone poking out. Also like one poster said how do you listen to heart or lung sounds in female patients who have large breast? do you get someone else to do your assessment for you each time and then do you get them to chart it ? Additionally after your female patient has their foley do you always have another nurse do your site checks to make sure there is no bleeding involved or discharge? Also when you get an admit do you not strip them down to make sure there are no preexisting wounds or sores that your hospital does not foot the bill for? Or more importantly that their wounds are not getting worse? When you assume care for a patient the first time do you not also do a full head to toe to make sure they do not have wounds? This attitude or stance simply does not fly nor is it practically in almost every nursing setting. There are some settings such as a clinic or something similar where this may work, but by and large it doesn't. I am a male nurse i see male body parts and female body parts regularly. I know it, my wife knows it and my coworker knows it. I can count on a hand the number of times a female patient refused any sort of care. I have worked in OB settings. Also ive never had a husband or male family member say anything and i have worked with younger patients my own age and younger, im 32. I would also like to add that there are tasteful ways to perform complete patient care on the opposite sex without making anyone uncomfortable. I would also like to add here that I am straight and I am attracted to the female form ( my wife's), I have never had one sexual or off thought EVER while attending to a patient. What if female nurses didnt care for male patients, as you see his could never work out. If you are a fire fighter you put out fires, if you are geico you save people money, if you are a male nurse you see female body parts. Its what you do. One last thing as a bit of a career advice if you ever worked at a place where they gave you the job without an interview, everyone else you are working with didnt get an interview either. These may not be the most competent co workers. Anyway my friend I wish you the best and say all of this only to add a viewpoint to this discussion, take care and God bless.
Let me make this clear, I am not asking you to catheterise my female patients, I am just not doing it. It will be a female who does this or it will not get done. This is nothing to do with laziness or anything else and everything to do with culture. In the UK I am not expected to catheterise females - this is a female task. I will do all the males. CULTURE.
No, no, no, no. The patient, if they think about it at all, will be glad a female did it. Again CULTURE.
This may seem strange to American nurses but there is still a divide between what is expected of male and female nurses. A female nurse can catheterise a male but a male nurse would very rarely catheterise a female.
I have noticed on this thread people talking about "intimate" care. This would be anything to do with genitals - yes we may be prudes but it does not give people the right to abuse us.
When working with females I would quite happily clean them but I would never do this alone, I would always have a female with me. This is for my protection, not the patients.
Again, thanks for reminding us that the OP is not working in the Good Old USA and this is a look at how other countries perceive the nurse role.
Been following this thread all weekend and officially give up somewhere around post 130.
OP is a boarding school nurse now, no? My timeline is reading that his experiences were almost 20 years ago. Doesn't that just make this all a MOOT point considering "culture" wherever we all may be has definately come leaps and bounds in the past two decades......
Do European patients/hospitals/ etc still have these chaperone policies/discomfort with male nurses?
This thread and this poster has sucked the life out of me but it been real peeps
Aw hell......I wish I had realized that the concerns voiced by the OP were from two decades ago!! Lawdy...I was under the impression they were recent. Weird.
If I'm still in a quandary about something TWENTY YEARS after the point is completely moot, maybe someone will put me out of my misery!
I was put in that position at the ripe old age of 20. A male nurse came in to catheterize and shave me for my upcoming C section. I was not a nurse at the time. It didn't bother me, but if it did I would say so. It didn't seem to bother him, he was very professional and we talked about the upcoming surgery and how nervous I was ... he reassured me like any other nurse. The only thing he said when he was catheterizing me was ....."just a little burn then it's done"... Sheesh I was just so glad that everything went smoothly that I couldn't care less if someone in a maintenance uniform performed it smoothly... lol
Even shy girls would quickly refuse something that would make them that uncomfortable... One of these days you may have to work in LTC and if the mostly female population needs to be catheterized, you should know how and be ok with it.
I was once told it was easy, you find the privy parts and it is just below that..... I can't find the privy parts with a miners helmet and a map - ask my wife.
sistrmoon, BSN, RN
842 Posts
I've had male gyns since I was 16. I've always found the "male nursing students can't do anything in OB rotation" to be ludicrous considering how many male gyns there are.