Getting Flack For Not Getting Covid Vaccine

[EDnurseAmen]

I am trying to feel out if anyone else has declined the Covid vaccine and feeling backlash or tension with other co-workers? I have never heard so much discussion regarding nurse receiving or declining a vaccine in the 12 years I've been a nurse. Not sure why it should even matter but, I am getting a lot of pressure about it. I do not see why I am "crazy " if I made the decision against receiving the vaccine. I also do not understand co-workers pushing the vaccine on me and others, or insisting we are out of our minds.  This is coming from management level as well as staff nurses. I am just appalled at the treatment and many of us who have declined the vaccine have kept to ourselves. For me, personally, I made the choice not to get it and I was done at that. It's been a month into our hospital vaccines and people will not just shut up about it. 

Is anyone else experiencing anything like this?

How are you handing this?

Please mind the poor spelling and grammar ?

[GrumpyRN, NP]

1 hour ago, UndecidedDuke16 said:

Does the mRNA vaccine provide the same immunity as the conventional vaccines for SmallPox and Measles? 

Are you trolling?

[Daisy Joyce]

According to the CDC, Covid19 vaccine does not prevent transmission of the virus.

[chare]

2 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

3 hours ago, UndecidedDuke16 said:

Please enlighten me on the ‘science’ that I am not understanding. Show me the data that illustrates the vaccine effectively preventing transmission. I must have missed it on the CDC website or in my UpToDate portal [emphasis added].

So I would begin with a little history lesson. Was it Jenner and smallpox? What century was that? 

Jonas Salk? 

[...]

Thank you for the history lesson.  However, you did not begin to address the question as to whether onward transmission of SARS CoV 2 is possible after being vaccinated.  From what I was able to find there isn't a definite answer to this.  If you have a source stating otherwise, perhaps you would provide the link?  

[UndecidedDuke16]

1 hour ago, nursej22 said:

 

I believe Undecided is technically correct here, in that the mRNA vaccines have not been shown to prevent transmission. They are about 95% effective in reducing serious disease.  I think data is still being collected in order to demonstrate reduced transmission. I'm not a expert, but I am guessing that we would need close to 75% coverage to demonstrate that. 

I would think mRNA vaccines would not provide the same immunity as live, attenuated vaccines. But then again, we don't know if COVID infection provided the same immunity as small pox or measles. In most individuals, those diseases (if you survive) provide life long immunity. 

That’s exactly it. We don’t know. So until a better vaccine becomes developed, or long term studies show that me getting the vaccine actually prevents me from getting the virus, or giving it to others, I’m not going to introduce it to my body. 
No one discusses the less than 2% fatality rate, or the fact that the virus is killing only those with compromised immunity due to advanced age (80+) and multiple chronic diseases. Now obviously there will be outliers where the virus kills a healthy individual, but that is exceedingly rare. 
You cannot even compare a disease such as smallpox or polio. They’re not even in the same league as far as fatality rate goes. 

I will not, nor should anyone else who refuses the vaccine, be bullied. If you feel that the vaccine should be administered, show the data as to why. If you can’t do that, keep your opinions to yourself. 

I embody my role as a healthcare worker by providing the best care I possibly can to my patients, as well as practicing good health outside of the hospital with diet, exercise, and recovery. Vaccines and more medications are not the answers to the state of our current healthcare crisis. I’m not going to be made to feel bad about rejecting a vaccine, especially from a broken healthcare system. 

1 hour ago, GrumpyRN said:

Are you trolling?

No, I’m asking you to provide actual data on why everyone should be vaccinated with the covid-19 vaccine. 

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

19 minutes ago, UndecidedDuke16 said:

 
No one discusses the less than 2% fatality rate, or the fact that the virus is killing only those with compromised immunity due to advanced age (80+) and multiple chronic diseases. Now obviously there will be outliers where the virus kills a healthy individual, but that is exceedingly rare. 
You cannot even compare a disease such as smallpox or polio. They’re not even in the same league as far as fatality rate goes. 
 

And no one who brings up the less than 2% fatality rate mentions long hauler suffers, which may be as high as 10% of those infected.

https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/covid-19-information/covid-19-long-haulers.html

My coworker has a 20 something year old child who was infected last March, and still suffers from fatigue and shortness of breath. 

But even 1% death rate seems significant to me. 1% of the US population is 32 million people. But you are willing to let them perish because you don't trust health care. 

What are your criteria of a better vaccine? And how long are you willing to wait for proof of reduction of transmission? 

I for one do believe that vaccines are our way out of this pandemic. I wish you good health and hope that you and your loved ones never contract COVID. 

[MunoRN, RN]

2 hours ago, Daisy Joyce said:

According to the CDC, Covid19 vaccine does not prevent transmission of the virus.

This is not something the CDC has said.  What they've stated is that there is ongoing research to confirm that the Covid19 vaccines reduce transmission of the virus, but that a common characteristic of all viral vaccines that limit the replication of the virus in a host is that they reduce transmission of the virus.  

[MunoRN, RN]

1 hour ago, UndecidedDuke16 said:

That’s exactly it. We don’t know. So until a better vaccine becomes developed, or long term studies show that me getting the vaccine actually prevents me from getting the virus, or giving it to others, I’m not going to introduce it to my body. 
No one discusses the less than 2% fatality rate, or the fact that the virus is killing only those with compromised immunity due to advanced age (80+) and multiple chronic diseases. Now obviously there will be outliers where the virus kills a healthy individual, but that is exceedingly rare. 
You cannot even compare a disease such as smallpox or polio. They’re not even in the same league as far as fatality rate goes. 

I will not, nor should anyone else who refuses the vaccine, be bullied. If you feel that the vaccine should be administered, show the data as to why. If you can’t do that, keep your opinions to yourself. 

I embody my role as a healthcare worker by providing the best care I possibly can to my patients, as well as practicing good health outside of the hospital with diet, exercise, and recovery. Vaccines and more medications are not the answers to the state of our current healthcare crisis. I’m not going to be made to feel bad about rejecting a vaccine, especially from a broken healthcare system. 

No, I’m asking you to provide actual data on why everyone should be vaccinated with the covid-19 vaccine. 

I agree nobody should be "bullied" because they decline the vaccine, but calling out dangerous misinformation isn't bullying.

A mortality rate approaching 2% in a virus that spreads readily through a population isn't a small thing.  Unmitigated, that translates to millions of deaths in the US.  

The mortality and morbidity risk is certainly higher in older age groups and those with chronic health conditions, but deaths of those under the age of 80 and not chronically ill is not "exceedingly rare", it's about 100,000 to 150,000 of the total US deaths so far, depending how you define "healthy" at baseline.

The published data to confirm that Covid19 vaccines do indeed reduce the transmission of the virus is so far limited to this study, although a number of other studies on transmission are underway.  We have extensive data though on how vaccines that reduce the ability of a virus to exist by blocking their replication in a host results in reduced transmission.  Non-existent viruses have a hard time infecting people.

[guest1163268]

2 hours ago, chare said:

Thank you for the history lesson.  However, you did not begin to address the question as to whether onward transmission of SARS CoV 2 is possible after being vaccinated.  From what I was able to find there isn't a definite answer to this.  If you have a source stating otherwise, perhaps you would provide the link?  

I have sat in court forcibly by my father and had to listen to Merck explain their Turkey operations re vaccine research and production. Also the Puerto Rico division re aspirin contamination. 

If you had any idea the complexity of production re a vaccine and the incredible amount of research re discovery and the various regulatory bodies eg our own, Europe, China, Japan etc. Do you know that medications have to account for physiological differences between Europeans and Japanese and Chinese re viability etc? 

To answer your question, viruses mutate to survive. There are other people who can explain that better, but without a herd effect, the virus will have hosts with unique biology that can allow the virus to get the proteins necessary to mutate. The current vaccines will lessen the effects of illness preventing hospitalization in most cases. 

Knowing the incredible care and regulations necessary to produce vaccines and the effectiveness from historical narratives, it is absolutely necessary to take the vaccine. 

We are nurses and science should dictate our actions! 

[NutmeggeRN, BSN]

On 2/12/2021 at 8:53 PM, hppygr8ful said:

 

I really try to not let people rent space in my head. There's enough goning in there with just me and the voices.

Hppy

But it's a happy place and your people really like you, right???

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

Another article about long COVID-19 or long hauler COVID-19. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/19/health/post-covid-syndrome-long-haulers-gupta-wellness/index.html

I am approaching retirement age and my spouse has health conditions that put him at risk for serious infection, so I was very happy to get a vaccine. 

[GrumpyRN, NP]

4 hours ago, UndecidedDuke16 said:

That’s exactly it. We don’t know. So until a better vaccine becomes developed, or long term studies show that me getting the vaccine actually prevents me from getting the virus, or giving it to others, I’m not going to introduce it to my body. 
No one discusses the less than 2% fatality rate, or the fact that the virus is killing only those with compromised immunity due to advanced age (80+) and multiple chronic diseases. Now obviously there will be outliers where the virus kills a healthy individual, but that is exceedingly rare. 
You cannot even compare a disease such as smallpox or polio. They’re not even in the same league as far as fatality rate goes. 

I will not, nor should anyone else who refuses the vaccine, be bullied. If you feel that the vaccine should be administered, show the data as to why. If you can’t do that, keep your opinions to yourself. 

I embody my role as a healthcare worker by providing the best care I possibly can to my patients, as well as practicing good health outside of the hospital with diet, exercise, and recovery. Vaccines and more medications are not the answers to the state of our current healthcare crisis. I’m not going to be made to feel bad about rejecting a vaccine, especially from a broken healthcare system. 

I was going to unpack this litany of nonsense and had started to look up facts, figures and all manner of data and then realised; you appear to be a covid denier so anything I write or say will basically go in one ear and out the other. So not going to waste my time. I'm sure you can Google a few facts yourself.

 

4 hours ago, UndecidedDuke16 said:

5 hours ago, GrumpyRN said:

Are you trolling?

No, I’m asking you to provide actual data on why everyone should be vaccinated with the covid-19 vaccine. 

If you are a healthcare provider then you know the answer to this already because you should know how vaccines work.

So the question then becomes; at the moment US has had over half a million deaths from covid in less than a year, how many more deaths are you willing to accept even when there is a way to reduce them?

[UndecidedDuke16]

4 hours ago, nursej22 said:

And no one who brings up the less than 2% fatality rate mentions long hauler suffers, which may be as high as 10% of those infected.

https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/covid-19-information/covid-19-long-haulers.html

My coworker has a 20 something year old child who was infected last March, and still suffers from fatigue and shortness of breath. 

But even 1% death rate seems significant to me. 1% of the US population is 32 million people. But you are willing to let them perish because you don't trust health care. 

What are your criteria of a better vaccine? And how long are you willing to wait for proof of reduction of transmission? 

I for one do believe that vaccines are our way out of this pandemic. I wish you good health and hope that you and your loved ones never contract COVID. 

The less than 2% fatality rate is only based off of those with positive tests. The percentage is likely significantly lower accounting for those individuals who have had covid but remained asymptomatic and never got tested, or never got tested and had symptoms. In addition to that, no one discusses that the persons dying from Covid have an average of over 2.5 comorbidities. Or the mishandling of elderly with positive cases being forcibly placed into nursing facilities, leading to even more infection and death among at risk populations. 
My goal is not to take away from the severity of Covid for those suffering from it. I understand that covid is serious for those at high risk, but the level of fear being placed into the hearts and minds of the average American is unjust. 
How much of that long haul suffering do you think is psychological? I’d bet my degree that’s it’s high. 
I am willing to wait as long as it takes for long term studies to come out that either show the vaccine prevents infection and transmission, or they come out with a better vaccine that does not require multiple boosters and does both of the above mentioned. The vaccines we all receive as children have decades of research behind them. The covid vaccine was pushed through in a little over a year.