It was a quiet Sunday afternoon and I walked into a 97 year old woman's room and saw a strange man sitting on her bed. She was laying supine and he was sitting next to her with his body over hers and intimately rubbing her arm. It didn't look right to me. At one point he leaned over and looked like he was going to kiss her.
I went to the nurse's station and asked the CNA if he was a relative. She said he wasn't, he was from "a church."
I said, he's in there getting too touchy-feely with Mrs. J and she said he had his hand on her leg when she saw him and agreed, he gave her the creeps.
I went into her room and asked if he was a relative and he said no, he was a friend. I said this whole scene is totally inappropriate, totally inappropriate, you need to get off that bed and get your hands off this patient!!! He was pushy an unapologetic and said everyone knows who he is and his wife is visiting down the hall, everyone knows him, the family knows he comes to see her and wants him to touch her and kiss her and let her know she is loved.
It made me sick.
He left and came back with his wife who wanted to know what my problem was and I told her. So, she went and sat on the bed and held this woman's hand (nothing like how her husband was touching the patient). Then the husband said I made him really upset and I shot back that I was pretty upset myself. I said you can't tell me you wouldn't want me to do the same thing if it was your mother and I thought she was being touched inappropriately! He just gave me this defiant look as if he didn't have a clue what I meant.
Him and his wife left and didn't say another word to me.
I wrote a long letter to the DON and plan to call tomorrow. This has me really upset. Just because these people go to church does not make them virtuous. In fact, they were both very arrogant and pushy. Several people told me they are very strange and they do not trust them. Still, I am apparently the only one to call Mr. Pervo on his behavior. My instinct that what he was doing was so strong I was ready to be as fierce as I needed to be to get the point across to him that I wasn't about to tolerate him fondling a 97-year-old woman suffering from dementia.
What should I do about this next time? It looked like an act of sexual assault to me (at the very best it was terribly disrespectful to the patient) and I felt like I should intervene THEN, not stand out in the hall and whisper about it to someone else. I believe if he cared anything about Mrs. J he would have understood her caregiver stepping in to ensure her safety, but he wasn't concerned about that at all. Then again, if he really cared about Mrs. J I can't believe he would have been touching her in such a demeaning way. It was really gross.
I wasn't there so I don't think it is appropriate for me to judge what that man did. Different cultures have different ways to approach women. When you work in one of the Arab countries, you can't even have any eye contact with your female co-workers. Anyhow, many of you, without even being there physically, already decided that man was an evil doer.
I remember from time to time when I watch the 20/20 or 60 Minutes, I see some people go to jail for no reason at all. No physical evidence. Just only she/he says, the innocents could end up in jail. So sad.
It's always easy for people to say you shouldn't lose your temper, and should be emotionally detached. But this sort of thing isn't really that common and as nurses we are the patients advocate. I would be extremely angry if I thought my patient was being molested. I just can't imagine how I'd be calm about it.
Jo I know that if I was in your shoes I'd do pretty much the same as you. If I saw an elderly vulnerable patient being inappropriately touched as you described I'd go as far as to call the police. I really do feel that this sort of thing should be reported.
Specializes in Management, Emergency, Psych, Med Surg.
I think you did the right thing. We just had an issue similar to yours on our floor. Every day this man and a couple of other men would come into the unit with their bibles asking who needed to be seen that day. They had been coming in there for as long as I had worked there (about 2 years). I would run through the list with them and off they would go. I thought they were approved members of the clergy staff. Well, we got a complaint from a patient about these three men coming into her room, hovering over her. I spoke with the chaplain about it and it turns out that none of these guys had permission to be there and they were actually from some kind of cult organization in the area. It took us a while to get them to go away. We told them over and over but they kept coming up to the floor trying to get in to see patients.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I was not there to see what happened, but I believe I may have acted in a similar manner as the OP, ask another person what they think, tell the person that their actions appeared to be inappropriate and then document. I am a very reactionary person when I believe that an individual's personal space is infringed on, or rights are stamped on. Not sure if I would have been Miss Mary Sunshine about it, either. At best, I would say to the offender how it appears and my role as an advocate means to speak and defend for those that cannot do this for themselves.
Specializes in LTC, Disease Management, smoking Cessati.
What should I do about this next time? It looked like an act of sexual assault to me (at the very best it was terribly disrespectful to the patient) and I felt like I should intervene THEN, not stand out in the hall and whisper about it to someone else. I believe if he cared anything about Mrs. J he would have understood her caregiver stepping in to ensure her safety, but he wasn't concerned about that at all. Then again, if he really cared about Mrs. J I can't believe he would have been touching her in such a demeaning way. It was really gross.
Instead of accusations, why not tell him it is policy that he not sit on her bed. And offer him a chair. Then check back to see if he took your advice or not. If not; again tell him that he should not sit on her bed, and that he if continues to break the rule you will ask him to leave.
I called the DON and he and the ADON and social services worker all feel I did the right thing. They said they know who this man is and he and his wife are very arrogant and uppity. So, when the creepy dude said everyone knew him there he didn't lie...but he failed to notice or acknowledge that didn't mean he was highly thought of.
I'm more suspicious of him now than I was before.
I asked if I still had a job there and they said "oh heavens yes!"
I'm still having an incredible amount of anxiety over this, though.
Frankly, I don't know what the old guy did except creep you out. Rubbing the patient's arm is not sexual assault. He was doing this right in front of you, right? The visitor was in his right mind, right? The patient was not distressed, right? Maybe he is completely innocent of some sort of perverse motive and is just a touchy kind of guy. He felt comfortable with his wife knowing what was going on, right?
However, if what he was doing aroused suspicion in you, I would listen to those feeling and act by calming explaining that the policy is not to have unrelated visitors of the opposite sex alone with patients because of a potential for sexual assault (this puts the guy on alert without making it personal). And then tell him he has to be in the room with her supervised with the door open or else he can't visit. Your first duty is to the patient. The visitor has no legal right to visit the patient, but you have a duty to protect. If the patient has involved family I would explain what I saw and then get a list from them of approved visitors.
It must be so hard to know what to do when you are taking care of demented patients, to look after them yet protect their rights also. I could never see myself doing it (or working with kids for the same reason). I give you a lot of credit for even trying to navigate this difficult ethical terrain.
I actually got called in to talk to the DON and administrator. They told me I should have called both of them yesterday, but said they admired me for taking up for a vulnerable patient.
We talked and the DON told how he would have handled the situation (a lot more diplomatic than I did) and the administrator said he knew this man and would talk to him. I told him that I know sexual abuse accusations were very serious and though I do not like this man (at all) I wish him no undue harm, and that is why I did not chart this or fill out an incident report because I wanted other perspectives from those higher up. The administrator agreed that my concern about this being demeaning and disrespectful to the patient was understood and he agreed with me 100% about that, but right now he is not thinking the visitor had sexual motives, though he will be talked to about how touching patients can be perceived by outsiders and suggest he think about how his actions may look next time he is visiting.
I did not argue, but I said if at any time that man wanted to contest what I had said about what happened to have him come on down.
So, as of now, all is well in paradise.
But I will be watching when he comes around again. He's the type you don't want to see without your back to the wall.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
It's always a good idea to look back on a situation and think about different ways you could have tried to "understand" the guy, avoided hurting his feelings or failing to appreciate that leaning over the lady and acting like he was going to kiss her is just part of his cultural background. However, there is a reason this one set off your alarm bells out of countless others. Worst case, you overreacted and explained why. I'd rather have to do that.
Try not to feel so anxious about it. If the equation is whether you feel embarassed for having offended an innocent guy vs. feeling guilty down the road for not having trusted your spidey-sense, I'll take the former hands down!! It sounds like your management agrees, but they will always explore alternatives, 'cause that's what managers do:) You're approaching this as a learning experience instead of going into defensive mode. That's another reason I'd like to have a nurse like you taking care of my family.:redbeathe
lpn2icu
144 Posts
Agree.