Confrontation with a Visitor

[Jo Dirt]

It was a quiet Sunday afternoon and I walked into a 97 year old woman's room and saw a strange man sitting on her bed. She was laying supine and he was sitting next to her with his body over hers and intimately rubbing her arm. It didn't look right to me. At one point he leaned over and looked like he was going to kiss her.

I went to the nurse's station and asked the CNA if he was a relative. She said he wasn't, he was from "a church."

I said, he's in there getting too touchy-feely with Mrs. J and she said he had his hand on her leg when she saw him and agreed, he gave her the creeps.

I went into her room and asked if he was a relative and he said no, he was a friend. I said this whole scene is totally inappropriate, totally inappropriate, you need to get off that bed and get your hands off this patient!!! He was pushy an unapologetic and said everyone knows who he is and his wife is visiting down the hall, everyone knows him, the family knows he comes to see her and wants him to touch her and kiss her and let her know she is loved.

It made me sick.

He left and came back with his wife who wanted to know what my problem was and I told her. So, she went and sat on the bed and held this woman's hand (nothing like how her husband was touching the patient). Then the husband said I made him really upset and I shot back that I was pretty upset myself. I said you can't tell me you wouldn't want me to do the same thing if it was your mother and I thought she was being touched inappropriately! He just gave me this defiant look as if he didn't have a clue what I meant.

Him and his wife left and didn't say another word to me.

I wrote a long letter to the DON and plan to call tomorrow. This has me really upset. Just because these people go to church does not make them virtuous. In fact, they were both very arrogant and pushy. Several people told me they are very strange and they do not trust them. Still, I am apparently the only one to call Mr. Pervo on his behavior. My instinct that what he was doing was so strong I was ready to be as fierce as I needed to be to get the point across to him that I wasn't about to tolerate him fondling a 97-year-old woman suffering from dementia.

What should I do about this next time? It looked like an act of sexual assault to me (at the very best it was terribly disrespectful to the patient) and I felt like I should intervene THEN, not stand out in the hall and whisper about it to someone else. I believe if he cared anything about Mrs. J he would have understood her caregiver stepping in to ensure her safety, but he wasn't concerned about that at all. Then again, if he really cared about Mrs. J I can't believe he would have been touching her in such a demeaning way. It was really gross.

[Batman24]

I would have had to see the actual act before I could agree that going off on someone that harshly was warranted. I wonder if this RN will get a call from the patient's family asking why they jumped on their pastor or whomever the visitor was. I need to re-read the OP, but it sounded like the man was touching her arm and not much more. I don't get why the anger unless some details were left out.

I wondered the same thing myself. I think OP was smart to make his DON aware of the situation in the event the patient's family does complain. I would only comment based on what I personally witnessed and not what others have stated to me. Sitting on the bed and touching her arm wouldn't have alarmed me. If I saw him leaning over her I would have told him to stop and explained how that could be very confusing and suffocating to a patient with dementia. That's unnecessary. If they didn't stop I would then take further action.

OP followed his instincts and that's always a wise thing to do. It can now be further evaluated.

[roadrunner-in-icu]

Beside the male visitor was coming from the church, do we know how they met in the church; perhaps, your patient used to bring him to the church when he was young, or perhaps she was deeply involved in his life. His wife was there, and she was not angry at all & I think the male visitor is more than just coming from the church.

I understand you want to protect your patient's well being; but there is no need to confront with the visitor.

A nurse is not supposed to lose his/her coolness!

[rabbitgirrl]

I think ooottafvgvah has a great point that low emotional intensity is the place to start in these kind of confrontations. The thing that was left out of consideration, though, is what I heard the loudest- It just didn't feel right.

I think the intuition thing is greatly discounted, especially in this sort of situation. She noted the creepy gut-feeling, verified with another nurse and took action. Clearly, this guy was pulling out the stops to act offended, anyway and the situation would have gone where it went eventually anyway.

I wouldn't have given a New York nanosecond's worth of thought to creepy guy's feelings. If he had been innocent, he would have acted embarrassed instead of huffy.

Also, I think maybe some people don't know that in most nursing homes there is no security, and many, many visitors with ulterior motives who are all too willing to misrepresent themselves. Add this to having 20-40 pts and very little time to doodle around with the nuances of questioning the validity of instinct.

OP, I think you did a really, really good thing. Keep up the good work!

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

i think you're being facetious but still, i so wish you wouldn't apologize.

you staunchly protected this helpless woman.

god love you for that.

incident report- notify md & family- care planning.

when push comes to shove, you did wonderfully.

thank you, jo!!

leslie

and don't forget to document, document, document!

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

beside the male visitor was coming from the church, do we know how they met in the church; perhaps, your patient used to bring him to the church when he was young, or perhaps she was deeply involved in his life. his wife was there, and she was not angry at all & i think the male visitor is more than just coming from the church.

i understand you want to protect your patient's well being; but there is no need to confront with the visitor.

a nurse is not supposed to lose his/her coolness!

i disagree. if the op's intuition told her there was something creepy going on, and another nurse also felt the creepiness, she was right to intervene on behalf of her patient. the wife not being angry means very little in this case. she could be bamboozled or controlled by this creepy guy!

[fortune-teller]

I wasn't there so I don't think it is appropriate for me to judge what that man did. Different cultures have different ways to approach women. When you work in one of the Arab countries, you can't even have any eye contact with your female co-workers. Anyhow, many of you, without even being there physically, already decided that man was an evil doer.

I remember from time to time when I watch the 20/20 or 60 Minutes, I see some people go to jail for no reason at all. No physical evidence. Just only she/he says, the innocents could end up in jail. So sad.

[fortune-teller]

i disagree. if the op's intuition told her there was something creepy going on, and another nurse also felt the creepiness, she was right to intervene on behalf of her patient. the wife not being angry means very little in this case. she could be bamboozled or controlled by this creepy guy!

how do you know the wife is controlled by that man? are you closely related to them? is op's intuition a standard for all of us? it is just not right to judge a person when we are not even there. if the op was a judge, many innocents might have to go to jail based on her intuition. so sad.

[Lori1421]

I have to say that I totally agree with you. You as the nurse are the patients advocate, and if the patient cannot communicate you are correct to step in where there is inappropriate behavior as such. I would have done the same thing.

[nursel56]

You absolutely did the right thing. What you described was alot more than a "friendly rub on the arm". People should read that first paragraph again. There are situations that just need to be stopped. NOW. Sounds like you were not yelling, but utilized a tone that indicated to the guy that you meant business. Like others have said, bless you for protecting the lady. I can't help but think about what awareness she may have had, but unable to communicate it.

[texastaz]

It does sound like a fishy scene. I would have knocked on the door open or closed and announced myself. The vistor's reaction would determine my next move. Instead of leaving the room I would have first asked the visitor who he was-name and relationship and ask the patient if she is ok. If I had that creepy feeling I would have asked the visitor if he signed into the visitors log-of not send him immediatley out-if he did sign in I would let him know he is not allowed on the patient's bed. Again depending on the visitor's reaction would determine if I would leave the patient alone with the visitor. If I felt the patient was not safe with the visitor I would press the call light and wait for assistance-inform the nurse in charge and let the nurse take it from there. In any event I would insure that the incident was documented. ---I do commend you for trusting your instincs.

[scared'o'needles!]

I think you were right to intervene..I would have probably panicked if I walked in on the scene you described.

I am wondering though, if this man was a member of a 'spiritulist church' and if what you witnesses was a 'healing' of some sort.

If this is the case... I have to say you were still right to challenge him as he should have announced himself and his attentions beforehand, to allow staff to establish if this would be appropriate.

I think it is always easy after the event to think of all the right responses to these dilemas and I have no idea how I would have handled this situation. Whatever the outcome (if any) hold on to the fact you had good intentions.

[mncna08]

I think you were right on . I would of done the same thing. No way would i play it nice and sweet if i came across this happening to one of my residents.i wouldnt scream or yell but someone would sure get an ear full. Thats disgusting beyond any measures. shame on that man.you have to go with your gut. sometimes you cant be mrs considerate when someone is doing something like that! Actually today at work some man came in staring at people and started watching t.v we found out his story real quick. No way is some unknown man going to walk around a place where vulnrable people stay. So i say thank you for telling that man to back off because if that was my mother i would want someone to do the same! Nurse or not! Too many debbie downers on this site.