It was a quiet Sunday afternoon and I walked into a 97 year old woman's room and saw a strange man sitting on her bed. She was laying supine and he was sitting next to her with his body over hers and intimately rubbing her arm. It didn't look right to me. At one point he leaned over and looked like he was going to kiss her.
I went to the nurse's station and asked the CNA if he was a relative. She said he wasn't, he was from "a church."
I said, he's in there getting too touchy-feely with Mrs. J and she said he had his hand on her leg when she saw him and agreed, he gave her the creeps.
I went into her room and asked if he was a relative and he said no, he was a friend. I said this whole scene is totally inappropriate, totally inappropriate, you need to get off that bed and get your hands off this patient!!! He was pushy an unapologetic and said everyone knows who he is and his wife is visiting down the hall, everyone knows him, the family knows he comes to see her and wants him to touch her and kiss her and let her know she is loved.
It made me sick.
He left and came back with his wife who wanted to know what my problem was and I told her. So, she went and sat on the bed and held this woman's hand (nothing like how her husband was touching the patient). Then the husband said I made him really upset and I shot back that I was pretty upset myself. I said you can't tell me you wouldn't want me to do the same thing if it was your mother and I thought she was being touched inappropriately! He just gave me this defiant look as if he didn't have a clue what I meant.
Him and his wife left and didn't say another word to me.
I wrote a long letter to the DON and plan to call tomorrow. This has me really upset. Just because these people go to church does not make them virtuous. In fact, they were both very arrogant and pushy. Several people told me they are very strange and they do not trust them. Still, I am apparently the only one to call Mr. Pervo on his behavior. My instinct that what he was doing was so strong I was ready to be as fierce as I needed to be to get the point across to him that I wasn't about to tolerate him fondling a 97-year-old woman suffering from dementia.
What should I do about this next time? It looked like an act of sexual assault to me (at the very best it was terribly disrespectful to the patient) and I felt like I should intervene THEN, not stand out in the hall and whisper about it to someone else. I believe if he cared anything about Mrs. J he would have understood her caregiver stepping in to ensure her safety, but he wasn't concerned about that at all. Then again, if he really cared about Mrs. J I can't believe he would have been touching her in such a demeaning way. It was really gross.
The administrator was correct as there is no evidence at all. A nurse's "intuition" is just not good enough in this case.
This is why I'm glad my instincts also told me to wait before doing anything irreversible (like documenting in the chart and getting other entities involved.)
The DON and administrator (both males) think that my experience as a young girl probably influenced (or skewed) my objectivity with this situation BUT, I was not the only one to think this man was inappropriate, the other staff did, too, they were just not ready to take a meat cleaver to the guy like I was. I think I have post-traumatic stress disorder because it sure turned me into a big, red-eyed gorilla for awhile.
Verdict: the man was out of line, though it is highly doubtful sexual assault was on his mind.
I'm so glad the bosses were understanding and saw my point of view as well. I'm sure not all managers are that way. I'm very lucky.
You really should consider keeping your childhood experiences to yourself. I can think of no reason why two male supervisors needed to have been told about your past. Telling personal info like this only puts you in a "different" light with them and surely could have served no useful purpose as far as a LTC job is concerned. Discretion keeps one from derogatory pidgeonholing. The less supervisors know about your personal life and your past, the better.
Everyone's ignoring this, from another nurse, on with Jo at the time:
"I said, he's in there getting too touchy-feely with Mrs. J and she said he had his hand on her leg when she saw him and agreed, he gave her the creeps."
Diplomatic, schliplomatic. You got the perv off her.
Everyone's ignoring this, from another nurse, on with Jo at the time:
"I said, he's in there getting too touchy-feely with Mrs. J and she said he had his hand on her leg when she saw him and agreed, he gave her the creeps."
Diplomatic, schliplomatic. You got the perv off her.
I'm not ignoring it. I'm saying that unnecessarily escalating a situation just to make a point is foolish.
Diplomacy is a useful tool for getting what you want, you know. Even including getting a creepy guy off a patient. The difference is that someone who can be effectively diplomatic tends to get things done with less drama, increased efficacy, and a better outcome for everyone involved.
Not sure why so many are ignoring or arguing that point of mine, but hey.
This is why I'm glad my instincts also told me to wait before doing anything irreversible (like documenting in the chart and getting other entities involved.)
The DON and administrator (both males) think that my experience as a young girl probably influenced (or skewed) my objectivity with this situation BUT, I was not the only one to think this man was inappropriate, the other staff did, too, they were just not ready to take a meat cleaver to the guy like I was. I think I have post-traumatic stress disorder because it sure turned me into a big, red-eyed gorilla for awhile.
Verdict: the man was out of line, though it is highly doubtful sexual assault was on his mind.
I'm so glad the bosses were understanding and saw my point of view as well. I'm sure not all managers are that way. I'm very lucky.
I am not so sure if your bosses were really "understand." I think all the bosses are diplomatic and smooth talking is part of it. Have you noticed that some nurses are doing the same thing? In front of you, they will say XYZ is no good and in front of XYZ, they will say some nasty things about you. From you posts, I am not really so sure if your bosses are totally on your side. Just perhaps..
At the end, I am not saying that you are a bad nurse. You do stand up and speak up for your patient. But I think there is a better way to solve this problem. There is not need to lose your coolness.
That wasn't a "friendly rub on the arm", the visitor's hand was on her leg. The patient couldn't speak up for herself. The other staff was creeped out too.
I am glad this woman had you as her advocate. I would have made him leave as well.
I'm not ignoring it. I'm saying that unnecessarily escalating a situation just to make a point is foolish.
Diplomacy is a useful tool for getting what you want, you know. Even including getting a creepy guy off a patient. The difference is that someone who can be effectively diplomatic tends to get things done with less drama, increased efficacy, and a better outcome for everyone involved.
Not sure why so many are ignoring or arguing that point of mine, but hey.
Not everyone is blessed with the gift of diplomacy. I sure am not blessed with that gift. I am not too sure I would have been diplomatic in that situation.
Not everyone is blessed with the gift of diplomacy. I sure am not blessed with that gift. I am not too sure I would have been diplomatic in that situation.
I think considering the needs and comfort of the other patients, families visiting, other staff etc can be a good motivator to handle a situation as calmly and quickly as possible.
Don't forget that many nurses despise when doctors yell at them. I recall reading the thread here a few days ago where tiredmd made a million excuses for why yelling at nurses was appropriate in some situations. He had a ton of people telling him it was never appropriate to yell at nurses. Well, all i'm suggesting is that it's never appropriate to yell or use certain kinds of language with patients/visitors either. You lose effectiveness and people respect you a lot less because of it.
If losing that respect and control over a situation doesn't bother you, then hey...you're a different person than I am.
edit: it isn't like I am only this way with the nurses I work with at clinical. I am notorious on my clinical floor for handling doctors who get whiny and yelling (ok so it only happened twice but it was out in the open and people STILL talk about it) And now those same two doctors respect me and will even stop to chat sometimes if i have a patient of theirs.
I wasn't there so I don't think it is appropriate for me to judge what that man did. Different cultures have different ways to approach women. When you work in one of the Arab countries, you can't even have any eye contact with your female co-workers. Anyhow, many of you, without even being there physically, already decided that man was an evil doer.
I remember from time to time when I watch the 20/20 or 60 Minutes, I see some people go to jail for no reason at all. No physical evidence. Just only she/he says, the innocents could end up in jail. So sad.
Since when is touching a woman on the leg a normal greeting? I can see if the touching was her hand, arm, shoulder, but not her leg. Seriously come on, that isn't normal especially if this wasn't her family. This was some guy from "church".
where does it say that op talked about childhood issues??
jo, definitely keep your eye on this guy.
i had a pt that had shared info w/me about her homelife.
it involved a lot of neglect and abuse, and, pt had marks on her body.
when i reported to tptb, they both defended this family member (the accused) and practically commanded for me not to report it.
i'm not saying this is their motive, but not everyone in life, plays ethically.
leslie
Isn't it funny how people are so quick to jump on the high and almighty judgement wagon???
I wasn't in there advertising my past life issues for the joy of shocking people, it naturally fit into the conversation at hand (which was about sexual advances and how my perception caused me to recoil in such a dramatic way.)
They were trying to figure out why I felt the way I did, they asked me if maybe looking back, I thought I overreacted? My response was perhaps, I may have overreacted by some peoples' standards but by the same token I have been on the receiving end of unwanted sexual advances by a "trusted" family friend, which made the permanent impression on me that just because people may be thought of as upstanding (like this man in question obviously thought he was) doesn't mean they are, and that was as far as I went with that topic. I can't believe someone is going to jump on their high horse because someone used a personal experience to illustrate a point.
I'm not ignoring it. I'm saying that unnecessarily escalating a situation just to make a point is foolish.
Diplomacy is a useful tool for getting what you want, you know. Even including getting a creepy guy off a patient. The difference is that someone who can be effectively diplomatic tends to get things done with less drama, increased efficacy, and a better outcome for everyone involved.
Not sure why so many are ignoring or arguing that point of mine, but hey.
And you are either completely missing the point (or perhaps deliberately missing the point) of how some things in life illicit such strong emotions "diplomacy" is the last thing on that person's mind. If you have the paranormal gift of always holding yourself together and exemplifying the voice of reason regardless of the situation, good for you.
Now, in the event you are not being totally unreasonable and can understand how there are times when emotions take over even the most professional of people and they may react in a way not considered refined and professional, then, yes, I know what you mean about catching more flies with honey.
Jo Dirt
3,270 Posts
This is why I'm glad my instincts also told me to wait before doing anything irreversible (like documenting in the chart and getting other entities involved.)
The DON and administrator (both males) think that my experience as a young girl probably influenced (or skewed) my objectivity with this situation BUT, I was not the only one to think this man was inappropriate, the other staff did, too, they were just not ready to take a meat cleaver to the guy like I was. I think I have post-traumatic stress disorder because it sure turned me into a big, red-eyed gorilla for awhile.
Verdict: the man was out of line, though it is highly doubtful sexual assault was on his mind.
I'm so glad the bosses were understanding and saw my point of view as well. I'm sure not all managers are that way. I'm very lucky.