Women's Right to Choose

[River&MountainRN]

I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

5 hours ago, emmjayy said:

I consider myself to be pro-choice. I support a woman's right to choose abstinence, birth control, motherhood, or adoption. This new law does nothing to curtail these choices, therefore I don't really have a problem with it.

Pro-choice means right to choose to have or not have an abortion. If you believe women can choose only different birth control methods, parenthood, or adoption; then your definition of pro-choice has about as much relevance to the abortion issue as believing a person can choose to have a turkey sandwich for lunch.

[icthusRN]

The overwhelming majority of abortions are done because the child is an inconvenience not due to rape/incest/trauma. Many pro lifers like myself think it’s fair to have exceptions to legislation.

There are are way more couples waiting for a baby to adopt than available supple.

Once I came to terms with that fact that this clump of cells is a life, then the reasons to abort became selfish and weak (I’m excluding the few cases of rape/incest/trauma here).

i had an unwanted, inconvenient pregnancy that I was so upset about when I found out. Now I have a sweet boy whom I wouldn’t trade for the world.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

Just now, icthusRN said:

There are are way more couples waiting for a baby to adopt than available supple.

reasons to abort became selfish and weak

i had an unwanted, inconvenient pregnancy that I was so upset about when I found out. Now I have a sweet boy whom I wouldn’t trade for the world.

1) no one should be guilted into staying pregnant because there are not enough babies to be adopted. There are plenty of children available for adoption, many of whom have been waiting for a loving home for years.

2) that is your opinion

3) congratulations on your son, but just because a pregnancy that was inconvenient panned out for you doesn't mean that everyone else will be joyful when they have a child that they didn't want.

Your body, your choice. My body, my choice.

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

Donning asbestos suit now...

I am proudly pro-life. It may be my body, but when we speak of pregnancy, we're talking about someone else's body. For me, it's really simple: that "clump of cells" has human DNA and is therefore human. We Americans have a Constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; why should an unborn child be deprived of that right? It doesn't make sense to me.

That being said, I'm all for free birth control, access to health care, and supporting mothers and babies after they're born, even if that means welfare and food stamps. I'd much rather pay taxes for that than for abortion. (My state is one that forces taxpayers to foot the bill for everyone's abortions, to which I strenuously object and have written letters to the governor and state legislators. Not that it does any good.) And FTR, I'm opposed to the death penalty as well, even though murderers are in an entirely separate category from innocent babies.

I don't judge anyone who has had an abortion. My sister had one right around the time of Roe v. Wade, and even though I disagree with the actions she took, it didn't make her a bad person. I don't think any woman faced with that decision is a bad person. She may just be in a bad situation and feel she has no other option. I know even the best birth control, used properly, can fail---I got pregnant with my last child while I was on the Pill AND using a barrier, so anything's possible. It wasn't a good time for me to be pregnant; we had three other kids and were poor as church mice. But for me, there was no "choice", I would carry that child to term. I ended up with the best kid a mother could ever ask for and can't imagine my life without him.

You may say that at least it worked out for me---not everyone has a happy ending to their pregnancy story. That may very well be true. But I still advocate for choosing life, and I applaud the lawmakers who are standing up for the unborn. Every life counts, from the centenarian on down to the tiny embryo hidden away in his/her mother's womb. But of course that's my opinion, which I hope I can express without being shouted down the way a couple of other members have been (one response to a pro-lifer was a rather crude invitation to go do something we don't talk about on a professional website "off"). I won't shove my beliefs down anyone else's throat, but I hate it when someone says we nurses should all speak up for reproductive "rights". We are not a monolith. There are a good many pro-life nurses out there, and they deserve to be heard too.

Carry on.

[osceteacher]

I find the idea of aborting a baby because you messed up a morally bad call but I still think that option should be available as my moral's are mine.

The idea that people would ban abortions for rape/incest or simply failed contraception disgusts me way more and are designed to send us back to the dark ages of dangerous abortions. Worldwide 100-200k women a year die due to unsafe abortion and these old crusty white men want to add to that.

These prolife people aren't prolife, they're happy for women to die as long as they can use some bible bashing nonsense to condone it. If you're in favour of banning abortion to 'protect human DNA' you're not pro life, you're objectively okay with the fact that more women die, so change your title from pro life, to pro maternal death..

[LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP]

Until the patient can survive without a specific person, abortions must remain legal. In no other context is it acceptable to force someone to keep anything else alive with their own body.

I am disappointed by the number of nurses that are so misinformed about a medical procedure, or that they think that the government should be able to decide whether a woman can have a medical procedure.

The best way to reduce abortions (and this is not opinion, it is researched fact) is to provide good, fact based sex education, easy access to birth control, getting women out of abusive situations and providing education. Making a medical procedure illegal is only about punishing women you deem as unworthy.

If people really cared about abortion and human life so much, they would keep it legal and then fix our societal problems that lead people to seek abortions for "trivial" reasons. If they think life starts at conception, let's start shutting down all the IVF clinics. And if it doesn't count because it's not in a woman, then it's just about punishing "loose" women, it's not about the life.

[NutmeggeRN, BSN]

10 hours ago, FullGlass said:

Men must pay child support unless they are dead or in prison.

That is some funny stuff right there!

[emmjayy, BSN, RN]

13 hours ago, klone said:

And in the case of rape?

As someone who had a baby as a teenager, after being raped by the "father", my position on the issue is that a baby's God-given right to be alive does not trump my (or anyone else's) government-created "right" to kill it. You can argue all you want, but you're never going to have enough snappy one-liners or paragraph-long posts about WOMEN'S RIGHTS to convince me that murder is cool, so I'm out ?

[klone, MSN, RN]

9 hours ago, icthusRN said:

The overwhelming majority of abortions are done because the child is an inconvenience not due to rape/incest/trauma. Many pro lifers like myself think it’s fair to have exceptions to legislation.

There are are way more couples waiting for a baby to adopt than available supple.

Once I came to terms with that fact that this clump of cells is a life, then the reasons to abort became selfish and weak (I’m excluding the few cases of rape/incest/trauma here).

i had an unwanted, inconvenient pregnancy that I was so upset about when I found out. Now I have a sweet boy whom I wouldn’t trade for the world.

That's great for you. But not everybody is like you, and everyone has different circumstances. Women have no obligation to "supply" infants to infertile couples. Yuck.

[Thought, BSN, RN]

On 5/20/2019 at 10:44 PM, FullGlass said:

I am pro-choice. Men are mandated to provide child support. I'm not sure if that begins during the prenatal phase or at birth.

Women can't have it both ways. If we demand men pay child support if we choose to have a child, we can't also demand that men have no say about abortion, logically. What if the man in question is the husband and really wants the baby? That is not such a clear-cut issue.

FullGlass,

I feel a couple should communicate his and her wants (marriage, kids, etc) with each other early on. If the two of them are not on the same page, it wouldn't be fair to stay and attempt to change the other's mind. Why waste each other's time? Those individuals can find someone who shares the same wants, elsewhere. Men can very easily leave when a woman gets pregnant; a woman cannot. Forcing her to remain pregnant will cause nothing but issues.

What if the husband in question is abusive towards his wife and commits spousal rape knowing she's trying to get away? A forced pregnancy would be one of his many ways to keep her under control. Now, I'm not saying this happens in ALL marriages. There's a plethora of healthy, loving marriages. However, there's also abusive marriages and relationships aplenty.

If the woman's life is threatened by continuing the pregnancy, should the husband be allowed to choose to forcibly keep her pregnant? Just another thing to think about.

Edited to add: Men might be mandated to pay child support, but that doesn't necessarily happen in all situations. My best friend, for example, is a single mother of autistic twins. Her abusive ex refuses to pay child support saying he "doesn't make mistakes" in reference to the kids having autism.

[JadedCPN, BSN, RN]

2 hours ago, emmjayy said:

As someone who had a baby as a teenager, after being raped by the "father", my position on the issue is that a baby's God-given right to be alive does not trump my (or anyone else's) government-created "right" to kill it. You can argue all you want, but you're never going to have enough snappy one-liners or paragraph-long posts about WOMEN'S RIGHTS to convince me that murder is cool, so I'm out ?

Part of the problem is that often times the argument is religious based, such as you mentioning "God-given right" and not all of us share the same beliefs. Nobody is wrong, but we need to respect each other's beliefs. Which means don't push yours on me and I won't push mine on you. Nobody is trying to convince anyone that "murder is cool." I just want me right to choose what I do with my body, and your opinion should have no relevance on that.

Sorry that happened to you, nobody should have to go through that.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

19 hours ago, no.intervention.required said:

I always thought that it's a very personal decision. I had fertility issues, so I would never, ever do an abortion. There are some women who get pregnant all the time after numerous abortions. It saddens me to hear about abortions, the loss of an innocent life. My mom did one after she had me, so there is that. I will never forgive her. I'm grateful she kept my sister afterwards.

In the case of rape, the child is still innocent. It's tragic if the mother cannot see that, she would not be a good mother anyway. Give her the choice, she will answer for it eventually. Even if we outlaw the abortions, they will still happen. Even if we allow them, some women will choose to keep their babies.

In an otherwise pretty awful argument for forcing a victim of rape to carry an unwanted child to term this is the one thing that makes sense. Pretty succinctly stated I might add and the best argument for allowing access to abortion that I've heard. If a woman is determined to get an abortion she will find a way. That way might not be safe. Do we really need to go back to the days of back alley abortions? Because you are right, even if illegal they will happen. And yes, some women may choose to follow through with an unwanted pregnancy, I'm sure it happens frequently. But at least it is their choice and not a decision that was foisted on her by some Big Brother government edict.