Women's Right to Choose

Nurses General Nursing

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I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.

I read every post...opinions range from horizon to horizon. It's evident there will never be a "consensus" but I respect the opinions of nurses over the run of the mill screamers who have never witnessed life's alpha and omega other than on TV; those who have never watched a baby take their first breath or watch another human take their last breath. There isn't a "template" or "algorithm" any government bureaucracy can put into place to account for each and every circumstance of the ebb and flow of individual human nature and life's encounters. Herein is where I think the solution lies. Each pregnancy is different and stands alone in the development. I'm pro-life and I'm pro-choice according to the circumstances. As with extremes in all aspects of society, abortion is no exception, but I believe, in most cases, a reasonable concern for the best, life, outcome is the determining factor in abortions. I am a Christian and have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior...that is the same Jesus Christ who said, "Those without sin cast the first stone."

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Since i am a Christian,I am totaly against abortion. There are waiting list for couples wanting to adopt a baby and give that baby a good life and love. You shouldnt blame the innocent baby because the mother was raped or didnt take any precautions along with the father taking precautions.

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On 5/21/2019 at 6:15 PM, Toadsmom said:

Since i am a Christian,I am totaly against abortion. There are waiting list for couples wanting to adopt a baby and give that baby a good life and love. You shouldnt blame the innocent baby because the mother was raped or didnt take any precautions along with the father taking precautions.

So if someone gets pregnant due to birth control failure or rape and is so distraught that they kill themselves and thus kill the fetus as well, is this a better option?

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Specializes in Public Health, TB.
3 hours ago, Toadsmom said:

Since i am a Christian,I am totaly against abortion. There are waiting list for couples wanting to adopt a baby and give that baby a good life and love. You shouldnt blame the innocent baby because the mother was raped or didnt take any precautions along with the father taking precautions.

I cared for a woman once who was diagnosed with a serious heart condition. She was started on a medication that was a known teratogenic. She was not given a pregnancy test until after she had started the medication. This was a terrible error, but not on the part of the woman. She was faced with the choice of continuing the med, knowing it would mostly likely cause a serious birth defect, stop the medication and risk her health, or have an abortion. What would you have advised her to do? Risk her life, risk delivering a baby with birth defects, or end the pregnancy.

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Specializes in Public Health, TB.
3 hours ago, Toadsmom said:

Since i am a Christian,I am totaly against abortion. There are waiting list for couples wanting to adopt a baby and give that baby a good life and love. You shouldnt blame the innocent baby because the mother was raped or didnt take any precautions along with the father taking precautions.

Also, can you quote the verse(s) where Jesus condemned abortion?

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
3 hours ago, Toadsmom said:

Since i am a Christian,I am totaly against abortion. There are waiting list for couples wanting to adopt a baby and give that baby a good life and love. You shouldnt blame the innocent baby because the mother was raped or didnt take any precautions along with the father taking precautions.

Many protestant sects do not condemn abortion so don't go sayin' how you are a rightous person because you are Christian who opposes abortion. Christianity, like ever other religion on earth, claims members that couldn't agree that the sun is hot. Mandoral codes do not even have to be based in religion. Abortion may be repugnant (because live cells are being destroyed), but repugnance does not mean the same thing as immorality. I have had to assist in many procedures that caused a lot of ethical painfor me, but some people think it's very important to put feeding tubes in vegetative people, and who am I to believe that my view is the "correct" one? But secular law can't be based on your Christian or any other faith since no one has yet proven that their good book is more relavant than any other person's good book.

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I am prolife, as you call it. I am also supportive of free contraception, free “morning after pill”, childcare assistance, more liberal adoption laws. I have done abortions and will never lose the images in my head from that very brief stint. It made me sick. I am absolutely in agreement that rape, incest, and maternal health have to be made the exception. I would never expect a child to go through a pregnancy from rape or incest. I am absolutely opposed to 3rd trimester abortions and the crazy laws being passed in New York that are nothing less than murder. I believe that a pregnant woman who is carrying a child, that is more than a mass of cells as one person put it, has a moral obligation to the child she is carrying. I believe that once there is a heartbeat, you are dealing with a real live person, not a mass of cells. It has been proven that babies in utero feel pain. They have awareness. They hear music. They hear their parents’ voices. They are human beings whose rights must be protected. Once you are pregnant it is no longer just your body. It is now caring for another human being. I gave a child up for adoption when I was 18. I did not abort my child. I gave him a chance to have a nice family and a good life.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
3 hours ago, Toadsmom said:

Since i am a Christian,I am totaly against abortion. There are waiting list for couples wanting to adopt a baby and give that baby a good life and love. You shouldnt blame the innocent baby because the mother was raped or didnt take any precautions along with the father taking precautions.

Many protestant sects do not condemn abortion so don't go sayin' how you are a rightous person because you are Christian who opposes abortion. Christianity, like ever other religion on earth, claims members that couldn't agree that the sun is hot. Mandoral codes do not even have to be based in religion. Abortion may be repugnant (because live cells are being destroyed), but repugnance does not mean the same thing as immorality. I have had to assist in many procedures that caused a lot of ethical painfor me, but some people think it's very important to put feeding tubes in vegetative people, and who am I to believe that my view is the "correct" one? But secular law can't be based on your Christian lens or any other faith since no one has yet proven that their good book is more relavant than any other person's good book.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
3 minutes ago, GaleSRN51 said:

I am prolife, as you call it. I am also supportive of free contraception, free “morning after pill”, childcare assistance, more liberal adoption laws. I have done abortions and will never lose the images in my head from that very brief stint. It made me sick. I am absolutely in agreement that rape, incest, and maternal health have to be made the exception. I would never expect a child to go through a pregnancy from rape or incest. I am absolutely opposed to 3rd trimester abortions and the crazy laws being passed in New York that are nothing less than murder. I believe that a pregnant woman who is carrying a child, that is more than a mass of cells as one person put it, has a moral obligation to the child she is carrying. I believe that once there is a heartbeat, you are dealing with a real live person, not a mass of cells. It has been proven that babies in utero feel pain. They have awareness. They hear music. They hear their parents’ voices. They are human beings whose rights must be protected. Once you are pregnant it is no longer just your body. It is now caring for another human being. I gave a child up for adoption when I was 18. I did not abort my child. I gave him a chance to have a nice family and a good life.

Neuroscience tells us otherwise. Scientists have actually studied the issue of whether fetuses can feel pain and have confirmed that until the 27th week of pregnancy (with some leeway of a week in one way or the other) the nervous system has no matrix to transmit pain stimuli to the brain where it can be perceived. With all the crazy laws coming out of the usuall suspect states, doctors now have to decide whether to anesthetize a fetus if the mom needs surgery. We have no way to anesthetize that which can't feel pain. How could you even come up with a dose to reflect what can't be measured. This is nuttiness.

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I am retired after 48 years of working as a nurse in many areas including OR, Critical Care, PACU, pre op and secondary recovery, stroke and cancer research, etc.

When I was in the OR in the 80's, we would have women coming into the OR for a D&C with suction (abortion). Some were coming for their 4th and 5th abortion.

There are IUD's , birth control pills, the morning after pill, etc. etc. If a woman is sexually active, she has alot of options. Alot of men won't take precautions.

I am just saying that the baby has no choice.

The woman's choice is before she gets pregnant. If she doesn't want to keep the baby, there are many people waiting to adopt and give the baby a home.

We are living at a time that no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. If something is inconvenient, just get rid of it.

If those who are for abortions after the 20th week would just look at a video of how they dismember the baby, I think it would change their minds.

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Specializes in SCRN.
10 hours ago, kbrn2002 said:

In an otherwise pretty awful argument for forcing a victim of rape to carry an unwanted child to term this is the one thing that makes sense. Pretty succinctly stated I might add and the best argument for allowing access to abortion that I've heard. If a woman is determined to get an abortion she will find a way. That way might not be safe. Do we really need to go back to the days of back alley abortions? Because you are right, even if illegal they will happen. And yes, some women may choose to follow through with an unwanted pregnancy, I'm sure it happens frequently. But at least it is their choice and not a decision that was foisted on her by some Big Brother government edict.

Nobody is forcing anything, let them have their abortion, I clearly wrote. Middle ages abortions or not, an abortion is never safe. Personal choice, carma is still a b. Thanks for the reply, though.

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I believe part of the problem is the lack of definition of abortion. I don’t consider terminating a pregnancy in which the fetus has died or will die immediately after birth an “abortion.” Also, no pro life person would support laws that would allow the mother’s health to be in danger. That said however, I do not support the right to terminate a healthy pregnancy in a healthy mother. Let me ask this question...is it right to abort a baby girl because you want a boy?? If it was discovered that gay and transgender people have specific genetic markers...is it ok to abort a baby because you believe they will be gay or transgender?? Obviously the answer to these questions are emphatically no. How is it that a woman desperate to have a baby can miscarry and be devastated...that life obviously meant something to her. Yet, in the same breath we can condone the willful murder of a healthy unborn baby at the same gestation and “shout” about it? This has nothing to do with a women’s right to her body...when she is pregnant she has a completely unique human inside her with its own unique DNA and fingerprints. That baby has a notable heartbeat at 6 weeks and after 8 weeks can be seen moving in utero. How can you say that this is not a living being? No...a woman does not get to choose to murder healthy life. Don’t hand me that BS about taking care of kids...you can tell the government to get out of your body, but it’s totally ok if the government raises your children?? Seriously?? Or is it really better to be dead than in foster care?? If that’s the case maybe we should torch all orphanages and kill all kids in foster care. That argument is weak at best and a complete logical fallacy at worst. Rape and incest...this is why we have plan b. Women know when they are raped...plan b should be offered at no cost in this situation. The baby in the woman is a life...either a life is precious or it isn’t. When you start placing arbitrary tests on the value of life what’s to stop quadriplegics and Alzheimer’s patients from getting euthanized? What’s to stop America from being like China and virtually mandating abortions? It’s a slippery slope when you decide that you can create criteria to support how valuable a life is. I find it ridiculous that nurses are saying it’s okay to kill an unborn baby because they witnessed crappy parenting. Using that guideline we can give CPS the right to euthanize kids who have crappy homes...I mean come on...we all know it’s better to be dead than poor. ? The only argument you have is that women should control their bodies...well don’t forget that the baby is a separate unique body. Destroying life for convenience is not a choice, it’s evil. I’m not interested in any rebuttals because you cannot argue in any truly scientific way that an unborn baby is not a life. To deny a baby as being a life is to deny fundamental science. Life is precious. Period. Save the “what if’s “ because we all know that those cases are the exception rather than the norm otherwise humanity would have already become extinct. I would absolutely provide care for a woman who has had an abortion (I have plenty of times), and I would give her the same care and respect that I give all humans. But we as a society have to decide what the value of life is....if life is only valuable if it grows in a two-parent home with plenty of money then we are truly doomed as a people.

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