Women's Right to Choose

Nurses General Nursing

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I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.

I have a HUGE objection to any politician having ANY say so about MY body or MY choices about MY healthcare. It is NOT, and should not be a political issue.

If a person feels they need to seek out an abortion, they ARE going to have an abortion regardless of the legality. Better a doctor to do it, than a back-alley self-taught abortionist, of which, I promise you, there are many.

None of you know the person's circumstances; it isn't always just a case of rape or incest. I know someone in the 1970's who had terrible mental and emotional problems, and her pregnancy made things worse. She had an illegal abortion set up, but 'fortunately' had a miscarriage two days before the appointment. Her relief at not being pregnant was so palpable, and would have been so regardless of the way the pregnancy loss came about.

No one should judge a person as being 'bad' or a murderer if an abortion is their choice. I do agree that 6-8 weeks should be the window of availability.

What about the men or families that object to the pregnancy, or the ending of that pregnancy? It isn't THEIR decision or choice. If it was, let THEM get pregnant and see where they stand.

Nothing like real experience to bring about some REAL understanding.

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Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
On 5/21/2019 at 2:57 AM, PeakRN said:

I disagree. I believe that the unborn child has rights.

You don't have to like my opinion. I'm still allowed to have one. You don't see me telling anyone else they can't voice their opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion

As I am entitled to believe that the rights of a potential child that can not survive outside of the womb trump the rights of an established human being

And neither you or any of the pro choice brigade have any control what so ever over my uterus.

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Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
On 5/21/2019 at 2:40 PM, FullGlass said:

Actually, cells can be alive or dead.

Yea, they arent going to all of a sudden jump into a human being nine months down the track

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Specializes in NICU/Neonatal transport.
On 5/21/2019 at 10:03 PM, subee said:

Neuroscience tells us otherwise. Scientists have actually studied the issue of whether fetuses can feel pain and have confirmed that until the 27th week of pregnancy (with some leeway of a week in one way or the other) the nervous system has no matrix to transmit pain stimuli to the brain where it can be perceived. With all the crazy laws coming out of the usuall suspect states, doctors now have to decide whether to anesthetize a fetus if the mom needs surgery. We have no way to anesthetize that which can't feel pain. How could you even come up with a dose to reflect what can't be measured. This is nuttiness.

I am prochoice as they come, but this is very outdated information. I can assure you that babies born at 22 and 23 weeks can feel pain. And maternal anesthesia does cross the placenta, because it's a huge problem if mom gets general anesthesia for a c/s. They have to get the baby out asap to avoid the baby being exposed to the anesthesia and being born anesthetized (needing intubation and resuscitation.)

On 5/21/2019 at 10:13 PM, MJMB said:

The woman's choice is before she gets pregnant. If she doesn't want to keep the baby, there are many people waiting to adopt and give the baby a home.

We are living at a time that no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. If something is inconvenient, just get rid of it.

If those who are for abortions after the 20th week would just look at a video of how they dismember the baby, I think it would change their minds.

This proves it's about using pregnancy and birth to punish a "loose" woman. Taking responsibility for actions can include getting an abortion. A pregnancy or child should not be used as punishment.

Birth control fails. Women are abused. Women get raped. Pregnancy is not that easy and can do damage to a woman and her body, her life.

If I got raped and got pregnant, in order to carry the pregnancy to term, I would have to be on bedrest for the entire pregnancy, and there would be a high chance of me developing placenta percreta, and having uterine rupture.

I have preterm labor with my pregnancies, required bedrest and medication to not deliver at 19-20 weeks. I had an ablation that the lining has regrown, but the damage done to the uterus is still there.

So.....I should be expected to continue that pregnancy? Lose my home? Lose my life? I'm not that rare, there's lots of ways pregnancies can be devastating. I have a right to live too.

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Specializes in Practice educator.
58 minutes ago, LilPeanut said:

I am prochoice as they come, but this is very outdated information. I can assure you that babies born at 22 and 23 weeks can feel pain.

No you can't assure us, because the science behind it all is very unclear, particularly as a lot of it is financed by pro life organisations, we still to this day don't know the facts on this. I have read copious amounts of literature and there is no stance on this. Yes the idea they can't feel pain until 27 weeks as factually accurate is outdated, but that could be the case, just as yours could.

Anecdotes are of no use.

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2 hours ago, osceteacher said:

No you can't assure us, because the science behind it all is very unclear, particularly as a lot of it is financed by pro life organisations, we still to this day don't know the facts on this. I have read copious amounts of literature and there is no stance on this. Yes the idea they can't feel pain until 27 weeks as factually accurate is outdated, but that could be the case, just as yours could.

Anecdotes are of no use.

So if it can’t feel pain it is okay to kill it?? So we can kill quadriplegics and people who are either comatose or otherwise unresponsive?? A human has no value unless they can feel pain?? It is never OKAY to kill a human being and an unborn baby is a human from conception.

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Specializes in Practice educator.
9 minutes ago, Scrunchkin78 said:

So if it can’t feel pain it is okay to kill it?? So we can kill quadriplegics and people who are either comatose or otherwise unresponsive?? A human has no value unless they can feel pain?? It is never OKAY to kill a human being and an unborn baby is a human from conception.

Bit of a strawman, the argument from pro-life side is the foetus CAN feel pain and that pain is a reason to not do it. The Pro choice argument could argue (with minimal evidence to support it either way) that it can't feel pain and therefore that particular argument against abortion is moot.

There is no one advocating abortion based on the premise that they don't feel pain.

The problem is both sides use evidence that neither confirms nor denies that foetus' feel pain. We just don't know.

The existence or lack of pain is not a precursor to anything in my opinion, we don't not do a hip replacement because it hurts, most medical procedures cause pain.

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How is that a straw man argument? The justification is that if the unborn baby can’t feel pain then it is okay to kill it. If the ability to feel pain is the point at which a baby can not be aborted then naturally the logical conclusion is that the ability to feel pain is the standard to remain alive or not be killed.

Also, a baby can move its limbs at 10 weeks or less...if the motor neuron tracks are in place to initiate movement why wouldn’t the afferent nerves be functional as well? Sure it is difficult to test but logic would dictate that if they form at the same time and one of the two is demonstrably operational then the second is likely operational as well. However this still does not resolve the simple ethical question as to whether it is okay to kill something because it lacks the capacity to feel pain. I submit that it is not and that pain reception is an arbitrary standard established for convenience.

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Specializes in Practice educator.
On 5/22/2019 at 6:55 AM, Scrunchkin78 said:

How is that a straw man argument? The justification is that if the unborn baby can’t feel pain then it is okay to kill it. If the ability to feel pain is the point at which a baby can not be aborted then naturally the logical conclusion is that the ability to feel pain is the standard to remain alive or not be killed.

Also, a baby can move its limbs at 10 weeks or less...if the motor neuron tracks are in place to initiate movement why wouldn’t the afferent nerves be functional as well? Sure it is difficult to test but logic would dictate that if they form at the same time and one of the two is demonstrably operational then the second is likely operational as well. However this still does not resolve the simple ethical question as to whether it is okay to kill something because it lacks the capacity to feel pain. I submit that it is not and that pain reception is an arbitrary standard established for convenience.

A strawman argument is one thats built on something that doesn't exist. No one is saying its okay to kill a baby based on the premise it can't feel pain. At all. So to keep pushing that argument won't get us anywhere.

As I said in my post, people on the pro-life side say its not okay to abort a baby because it feels pain, the pro-choice side say it doesn't feel pain so that argument against abortion (not for) doesn't hold water with them.

No one is arguing for abortion purely because they can't feel pain, so saying yeah well why not just kill quadriplegics because they can't feel pain is an absurd strawman.

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I've been a nurse for 50+ years and celebrated the Roe v. Wade decision, but as a woman, I NEVER felt secure that safe, legal abortion or even family planning for that matter were protected. The attacks on women's decisions in many areas such as careers, pay, harassment, pregnancy - including abortion are blatant. And now, it is an all-out war on women's choice about our bodies and our sexuality. We must NOT be silent or passive; we must be vocal and take a stand to protect the rights and dignity of ALL women, for ourselves and our patients, to make a personal, informed choice.

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What I'm reading here scares the heck outa me! I'm 70 y/o retired nurse and we lived by the ideal that you save life! I agree with those who state that there are times when prolonging life is not the best choice, and I certainly would not want to make any woman (or certainly child) carry a baby they didn't want. BUT....and this is a BIG BUT.... it is very hard for me to understand how there are 879,000 rapes resulting in pregnancy or children impregnated by a family member. Have any of you seen HOW they do the abortion? The silent cry? The pain that baby must feel?? OMG!!! WE are supposed to be the ones to whom people look for guidance and answers. Why is no one on here talking about abstinence in teenagers? Why are they not taught pregnancy is just ONE problem they face? We are lucky enough now to the the morning after pill and more kinds of birth control than a lysol douche, why are there ANY unwanted pregnancies? In any case, I am sickened to think that my tax dollars go to the wholesale butchering of the defenseless. If a woman cannot figure out how to accept a child, or give it up for adoption, then let her pay for the murder of the innocent she so desires.

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You don't have to be scared; believe in and stand with women to made their own choice.

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