Women's Right to Choose

[River&MountainRN, ADN, RN]

I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

[River&MountainRN, ADN, RN]

To tie this into nursing, specifically, so that it doesn't just automatically get turfed to the Breakroom: how do you see this affecting your nursing practice/patients/healthcare in general, especially in light of doctors being sentenced to a possible 99 year prison sentence in Alabama? I understand, especially in Alabama's case, they likely made the new law SO restrictive and SO punitive simply so that it would be brought to the Supreme Court to challenge Roe v. Wade, but sociopolitical precedent has now been set (and draconian law makers emboldened) so that even attempting to enact such anti-choice laws is now "OK".

As for me, a female nurse, I have never had an abortion nor do I know that I would choose one for myself if it came to that, but I most certainly support a woman's right to her own business and healthcare autonomy/decisions. I am mindful that it's always a possibility that birth control can fail: barriers can tear and hormonal contraceptives aren't always effective (especially if overweight, which I am), which a lot of people don't seem to understand. But I didn't want to get into it on Facebook, since some comments I've seen toward nurses have just been scary: threatening the nurses with physical harm, trying to find out where FB nurse posters work and threatening career-related harm, looking people up on Boards of Nursing websites and threatening false allegations to the Board...just because these self-proclaimed nurses tried educating the public and/or stated that they support their female patients' rights to bodily autonomy and healthcare choices!

[NightNerd, MSN, RN]

As a nurse, and just a human being who hasn't entirely lost her compassion, I don't understand how these lawmakers would be able to look a pregnant 12-year-old rape victim (or any pregnant 12-year-old, or any pregnant victim, or just ANYONE with reason to terminate a pregnancy) and believe they're doing a good thing. How heartless do you have to be to realize that parenthood is not something you can just thrust upon someone after a traumatic experience? (To clarify, I am pro- choice for more reasons than rape and incest, but to me that is once of the more disturbing tenets of the Alabama bill.) To bring it around to the nursing role, what does "safe discharge planning" look like here (i.e., after a baby is born to a mother who wasn't allowed an abortion)? Some people will rise to the challenge even if this isn't something they wanted, but some aren't going to be able to function as parents, and what happens to all these babies then? Foster care? Because *that's* solving everything already.

When everyone pushing for these bills fosters or adopts an at-risk child, THEN we can talk about being pro-life. Until there are provisions in place for the care, schooling, and physical and mental health of all the children already born, though, disallowing abortion really isn't feasible, regardless of whether you like it or not.

[River&MountainRN, ADN, RN]

1 hour ago, NightNerd said:

As a nurse, and just a human being who hasn't entirely lost her compassion, I don't understand how these lawmakers would be able to look a pregnant 12-year-old rape victim (or any pregnant 12-year-old, or any pregnant victim, or just ANYONE with reason to terminate a pregnancy) and believe they're doing a good thing. How heartless do you have to be to realize that parenthood is not something you can just thrust upon someone after a traumatic experience?

When everyone pushing for these bills fosters or adopts an at-risk child, THEN we can talk about being pro-life. Until there are provisions in place for the care, schooling, and physical and mental health of all the children already born, though, disallowing abortion really isn't feasible, regardless of whether you like it or not.

I try to be open-minded and try to see everything clearly from both sides (including those I don't agree with, like the pro-birther movement), but I'm of the same mind as you about being absolutely mystified over how someone who considers themselves "pro-life" can't extend their empathy toward those children who are already born. I just can't wrap my mind around how a clump of cells, that are unable to support themselves without the mother, can mean more than a traumatized child rape victim or children (already born) in need.

[Nunya, BSN]

I wrote this on my FB page (basically), if you're pro-life and you aren't voting for people who want more and better programs for poor women and children then you're not pro-life, you're pro-forced birth. Most of these states enacting draconian abortion laws are in the lower bottom half in terms of education and maternal and infant mortality. If they really cared they wouldn't be. And.... It's been stated (I forget who though) that they aren't worried about all the unclaimed fetuses in IVF facilities, just the ones in women. So are they really for the fetuses or against the women?

[dream'n, BSN, RN]

My personal opinion only; I dislike the 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' tag. I'm not one or the other. To me abortion is not a black or white issue, it is in the gray zone. I support choice in early pregnancy and for other particular reasons, but I don't support partial-birth abortion done after fetal viability. I haven't personally had an abortion, but know of many close family and friends that have and I love them dearly. I am not in their shoes and I am supportive of them and their decisions. There was a time in my life when abortion would have been my choice if I had found myself pregnant.

I really dislike that this is such a political issue. I know strong 'pro-lifers' that will only vote Republican due to abortion and not the candidate running, and at the same time I have seen this on the Democrat side with those that are 'pro-choice'. With either group, you can't discuss any other issue; not the environment, healthcare, education, foreign policy because it's all about abortion.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Unlike Bill Clinton, I wish abortion were safe, legal, and more frequently chosen. Abortion IS health care. I wish it were destigmatized, more available, free, and felt okay and safe for more women to choose. Abortion is FAR safer than pregnancy and childbirth, from a maternal mortality perspective. I am pro-abortion and will speak readily about my views, which I know are foreign to many. I didn’t used to think “pro-abortion” was really a thing. But it is, and I am.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Having a lot of years' L/D experience, I have seen horrifying situations that I won't detail here. Suffice to say, safe, legal abortion cannot-----MUST NOT --- be stopped/made criminal.

And IF you are so prolife, tell me: once said child is born, will YOU THE STATE: ensure he/she has adequate health coverage, schooling, food, etc for LIFE? Will you hold "fathers" responsible, at least financially, from pregnancy to majority?

If you can't stay yes to the above, you are NOT prolife. you are PRO FETUS/birth only. Stop using that title to make yourself feel good about your "choices".

[Guest219794]

8 hours ago, dream'n said:

My personal opinion only; I dislike the 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' tag. I'm not one or the other. To me abortion is not a black or white issue, it is in the gray zone. I support choice in early pregnancy and for other particular reasons, but I don't support partial-birth abortion done after fetal viability. I haven't personally had an abortion, but know of many close family and friends that have and I love them dearly. I am not in their shoes and I am supportive of them and their decisions. There was a time in my life when abortion would have been my choice if I had found myself pregnant.

I really dislike that this is such a political issue. I know strong 'pro-lifers' that will only vote Republican due to abortion and not the candidate running, and at the same time I have seen this on the Democrat side with those that are 'pro-choice'. With either group, you can't discuss any other issue; not the environment, healthcare, education, foreign policy because it's all about abortion.

Not entirely true.

I think that for most part those who support "pro choice" candidates and policies are not single issue voters. Generally, pro choice politicians have a platform that supports things like prenatal care, access to healthcare for the newborn and through childhood, education, and other things that will help break the cycle that leads to many abortions. As well as supporting a science based approach in order to leave a viable planet for those who are born.

Bear in mind as you look at these laws that the stated intent is that they are so egregious they are guaranteed to be challenged in the supreme court. The target here is Roe VS Wade, and the poor are the the civilian casualties in this war. When the mistress or daughter of a conservative Alabaman politician needs an abortion, pretty sure she will have the resources to go out of state.

[NICU Guy, BSN, RN]

9 hours ago, NightNerd said:

just ANYONE with reason to terminate a pregnancy

8 hours ago, River&MountainRN said:

I just can't wrap my mind around how a clump of cells, that are unable to support themselves without the mother

I love how pro-choice people use semantics instead of calling what it is: killing a human being. When is the last time you heard someone have a "clump of cells" shower instead of a baby shower. Same with a woman that has a miscarriage, do you tell her to stop crying because it was only a clump of cells?

[CalicoKitty, BSN, MSN, RN]

26 minutes ago, NICU Guy said:

I love how pro-choice people use semantics instead of calling what it is: killing a human being. When is the last time you heard someone have a "clump of cells" shower instead of a baby shower. Same with a woman that has a miscarriage, do you tell her to stop crying because it was only a clump of cells?

If it was in me, I'd rightfully call it a parasite and wish it removed. Thankfully, I've never had to make that decision. But, I think having children, especially unwanted children is morally and ethically wrong. But, I also don't think I should have the right to force abortions on people I think would be horrible parents. The planet is burning. We need fewer children. The global population keeps climbing. But, still not my right to force my moral and ethical beliefs on others.

[umbdude, MSN, APRN]

We all have different definitions of what "human life" is. Some think any fertilized egg is a life, some think it isn't until it's able to support itself outside of the womb. The folks in Alabama named the bill "Human Life Protection Act," yet the very next day the governor signed off to kill a human life (2nd inmate this year so far killed). Soldiers regardless of which side kill and consider such action justifiable, even when civilians are involved (collateral damage).

In the end, we all want to place supreme value on human lives, but in reality it never works out that way. If you live in places like El Salvador, Saudi Arabia, or Syria, your human life is cheap as dirt.

My view is: If you're not carrying the fetus and you're not going to provide the women with incredible alternatives and support- such as full financial (>$100k) support, social support, free housing, free health care, and free education for both mother & child, leave this life-changing decision to the women.

Even with all the above, there is no justification to force underage girls or any women to give birth to a child produced by rape and/or incest. The thought of forced birthing of a child of rape and incest sends chills down my spine.

Abortion has been going on since the dawn of humans. It is a reality that will continue to happen. Society can lower it by providing complete and free access to birth control, ensure health care access for girls and women, education, and create social and financial environment that make having children viable and not burdensome; but we can never ever end it, certainly not by banning.

Let's put responsibilities on men too. What are men doing so they're not contributing to unwanted pregnancies? How are men held responsible when pregnancies occur?