Women's Right to Choose

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

Specializes in CMSRN, hospice.
2 hours ago, kat7464 said:

Abortion is the murder of an innocent human being, plain and simple. You can dance around it all you want and talk about women's rights, but where is the right of the human she is carrying? I am sure plenty will hate me for being pro-life, but the fact is God created humans in His image...we are fearfully and wonderfully made. Every human being has the right to life.

The Bible has some passages that suggest otherwise. Numbers 5 details a test for adultery that results in abortion, so it would seem that the products of adultery are not really valued, for example.

That being said, not everyone subscribes to this faith - and it IS faith, not fact. That gives you the right to practice any way you wish, but these beliefs should not dictate the law we are all governed by. And as I said before, and will keep saying, there needs to be a demonstration that the lives of children living in poverty, being abused or neglected, etc. are valued before there are any limitations placed on abortion. Children, and indeed all people, need to matter just as much once they're outside the womb as they seem to inside.

13 Votes
Specializes in Public Health, TB.
9 hours ago, NightNerd said:

The Bible has some passages that suggest otherwise. Numbers 5 details a test for adultery that results in abortion, so it would seem that the products of adultery are not really valued, for example.

That being said, not everyone subscribes to this faith - and it IS faith, not fact. That gives you the right to practice any way you wish, but these beliefs should not dictate the law we are all governed by. And as I said before, and will keep saying, there needs to be a demonstration that the lives of children living in poverty, being abused or neglected, etc. are valued before there are any limitations placed on abortion. Children, and indeed all people, need to matter just as much once they're outside the womb as they seem to inside.

This is a quote from John Fugelsang, whose father was formerly a priest and his mother a former nun.

The Bible: Never forbids abortion

Says life begins w/breath

God says fetus has less value than woman in Exodus

God mandates abortion for unfaithful wives in Numbers

God frequently demands slaughter of infants & fetuses

Jesus never mentions it JC did oppose the death penalty

12 Votes
Specializes in CTICU.

Just leaving this here as a little change of perspective ?

https://humanparts.medium.com/men-cause-100-of-unwanted-pregnancies-eb0e8288a7e5

10 Votes
Specializes in Med-Surg, Geriatrics, Wound Care.
40 minutes ago, nursej22 said:

This is a quote from John Fugelsang, whose father was formerly a priest and his mother a former nun.

The Bible: Never forbids abortion

Says life begins w/breath

God says fetus has less value than woman in Exodus

God mandates abortion for unfaithful wives in Numbers

God frequently demands slaughter of infants & fetuses

Jesus never mentions it JC did oppose the death penalty

I typically don't care much about what religions say, but this is kinda interesting.

5 Votes
On 5/19/2019 at 10:10 AM, sarolaRN said:

Just leaving this here as a little change of perspective ?

This article is amazing!! Thank you for sharing because the article neatly wraps up so many of the arguments I have tried to make (on other social media).

5 Votes
19 hours ago, River&MountainRN said:

I agree with Jaded. And to answer the miscarriage comment, we don't tell women who miscarry to "get over it" because that embryo/fetus was a DESIRED, POTENTIAL baby that failed to develop into its baby form. We support their mourning over what was the beginnings of what could have been and their loss. A woman who does not want, essentially, a parasite growing/feeding from her nor the 18+ year responsibility that it develops into should not be forced to subject her body to the mental/emotional/rigors of a pregnancy just to make someone else (especially a man who will NEVER have to undergo the same process) feel good.

One thousand likes, one thousand thanks for explaining this clearly to those who need help understanding...

4 Votes
On 5/19/2019 at 10:10 AM, sarolaRN said:

Just leaving this here as a little change of perspective ?

I RARELY send a mass message to my friends, because i personally find it annoying to get a million per day,but this article- i sent it to everyone. Thanks

6 Votes

I am an OR nurse, and we regularly do abortions after 20 weeks, sometimes for no other reason than the woman changed her mind. Perfectly healthy baby. I exercise my right to refrain from participation, and in a huge OR, the truth is that there are only a handful of staff who will participate in them, even though the majority of the staff would probably call themselves pro-choice. I've talked with most of the staff who do them, and even though they are pro-choice, they come of those rooms feeling disturbed. One fellow nurse, who I like and respect, told me she tries not to look at the pieces of fetus, and has to think of it as a specimen in order to get through it.

It's illogical to me that a baby in the womb would not be considered a person. And since R vs W, we have learned beyond a doubt that the fetus feels pain. Neonate surgeons speak of having to give anesthetic to fetuses at 18 weeks during surgery. I can tell you beyond a doubt that abortion doctors do not give anesthetic before tearing the fetus apart and removing it by pieces.

You can be disturbed by the bills banning abortion, but what about the laws in New York, Vermont, Virginia and elsewhere being passed that ensure abortion up to birth without any restrictions? Seriously, no outrage? What is worse, a law that makes a woman carry a child to birth and then allows to her to give the baby to a loving home who desires a child so badly, or allowing a woman to abort her baby at 39 weeks because she changes her mind or wants to prove a point that it is her body/her choice?

For the record, I am pro-life, and pro services for women and children. I hate Donald Trump. I wish there were a pro-life Democrat to vote for because I feel stuck voting Republican because abortion has to be at the top of my voting issues, but on pretty much every other issue I side with Democrat. I am seeking to adopt, but while there are 400,000 children in foster care in this country, the number up for adoption is significantly lower, and babies up for adoption are almost non-existent. I have a 2 year old, and almost all of the children up for adoption in my state are required to go to a home where they are the only child, or the youngest child. Infertility runs in my family, and I have 2 brothers and a sister who are all looking to adopt, and it is near impossible and financially crippling.

I hear this same tired argument about people against abortion not caring about the women or babies after birth, but I don't know a single pro-life person like this. The best of us volunteer at pregnancy centers, and financially support facilities that provide housing, education and childcare for woman in need. The one near me allows a woman to live for up to 2 years after she gives birth, and helps her to get a degree so that she can get a job to support herself and her child. You should go to one of those pregnancy centers and ask about services. Then go to Planned Parenthood and ask what they offer to women who want to keep their babies but are poor, alone and afraid. Then come back and tell me who has the agenda.

12 Votes
Specializes in CTICU.
24 minutes ago, MEINstudent said:

or allowing a woman to abort her baby at 39 weeks because she changes her mind or wants to prove a point that it is her body/her choice?

I hear this same tired argument about people against abortion not caring about the women or babies after birth, but I don't know a single pro-life person like this. ...Then come back and tell me who has the agenda.

2 things: there is no such thing as an abortion at 39 weeks because that fetus is viable. Labor is induced and the baby is delivered, not aborted. If the baby is not viable at 39 weeks, it is still induced labor and delivered and allowed to pass or is stillborn. Second, you and the people that you know who are pro-life may have good intentions and volunteer and do this and that, but most of the people affected by abortion bans are not lucky enough to have access to such services, are afraid to seek them, live in areas where they are inaccessible, do not feel safe trying to get them, can't afford to take time off to go, by saying all of these well-meaning things you are still minimizing, diminishing, and deflecting the problem here and it's that your opinions and your feelings should have no weight in making decisions about someone else's life. Period.

In healthcare, everything requires consent. We can't do procedures, take blood, give blood or medications, treatment , or even take vitals without consent in most circumstances. You must give consent to be an organ donor, and if you didn't your organs cannot be harvested. The dead have more of a say over their bodies than pregnant people. Abortion is healthcare, and only the person carrying the fetus should have the final say in what happens to it.

14 Votes
Specializes in ER.

I'm going to chime in once here.

Liberal European has much more restricted abortion laws. Most allow only up to 12 weeks. UK and Netherlands, the highest, up to 24 weeks. Portugal up to only 10 weeks.

I find it appalling that many pro choice activists want unrestricted abortion at any time during pregnancy. Although I'm generally against abortion, the 12 week cutoff seems rational and respectful of human life.

A 12 week cutoff gives the woman time, but a reasonable deadline. It acknowledges the fact that a first trimester fetuses probably has little to no self awareness.

The pro-life segment also needs to be less extreme in their goals. I advocate for a reasonable compromise that is more respectful of the human life in the womb, but also realistic of the real difficulties that women face.

8 Votes
Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.

Europe also has socialized healthcare with much better access to early primary care than in the US. And they have ready access to abortion care, and don’t have the barriers that many women, in many states, have in the US.

A 12-week cutoff would not address those abortions that take place after anatomy ultrasounds that reveal devastating and/or incompatible-with-life fetal anomalies

If you were to poll all pro-choice people, I bet you would find only a tiny tiny fraction of those people believe there should be unrestricted access to abortion at any gestational age.

14 Votes
Specializes in UR/PA, Hematology/Oncology, Med Surg, Psych.
37 minutes ago, sarolaRN said:

2 things: there is no such thing as an abortion at 39 weeks because that fetus is viable. Labor is induced and the baby is delivered, not aborted. If the baby is not viable at 39 weeks, it is still induced labor and delivered and allowed to pass or is stillborn. Second, you and the people that you know who are pro-life may have good intentions and volunteer and do this and that, but most of the people affected by abortion bans are not lucky enough to have access to such services, are afraid to seek them, live in areas where they are inaccessible, do not feel safe trying to get them, can't afford to take time off to go, by saying all of these well-meaning things you are still minimizing, diminishing, and deflecting the problem here and it's that your opinions and your feelings should have no weight in making decisions about someone else's life. Period.

In healthcare, everything requires consent. We can't do procedures, take blood, give blood or medications, treatment , or even take vitals without consent in most circumstances. You must give consent to be an organ donor, and if you didn't your organs cannot be harvested. The dead have more of a say over their bodies than pregnant people. Abortion is healthcare, and only the person carrying the fetus should have the final say in what happens to it.

You are wrong, what do you think partial birth abortion is? It’s when a viable fetus has a needle inserted into the back of its neck to kill it immediately prior to birth, right before the head is delivered. The baby’s head is crowning and many times it’s a perfectly healthy infant. That is why I believe abortion is a gray area. I don’t think all or early abortions should be illegal, but seriously a healthy crowning baby being killed?? That’s another matter entirely.

4 Votes
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