Women's Right to Choose

[River&MountainRN]

I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

[CamMc]

I'm not a nurse yet, but I don't understand how the Alabama law particularly works for doctors and the whole "do no harm" (I'm under the impression that nurses have a similar code of conduct, correct?) particularly in the case of the young (11/12 year old who was raped), if pregnancy is going to cause significant mental and physical trauma to someone who did not want to become pregnant, but it doesn't fall into the category of "life-threatening" how is forced birth helping the person who is pregnant.

[klone, MSN, RN]

I’ve heard that the DAs in AL have spoken out and stated that they have no plans to prosecute any physicians for performing abortions.

[JadedCPN, BSN, RN]

6 hours ago, NICU Guy said:

I love how pro-choice people use semantics instead of calling what it is: killing a human being. When is the last time you heard someone have a "clump of cells" shower instead of a baby shower. Same with a woman that has a miscarriage, do you tell her to stop crying because it was only a clump of cells?

To me, this is not a human being. It is the beginning of the development of one, but it is not one at all and it's rights should not come before any other human's. But that's part of the principal differences of viewpoints/thinking of pro-choice vs pro-life, and why there is no middle ground.

I definitely do understand your miscarriage argument though.

[River&MountainRN, ADN, RN]

4 hours ago, JadedCPN said:

To me, this is not a human being. It is the beginning of the development of one, but it is not one at all and it's rights should not come before any other human's. But that's part of the principal differences of viewpoints/thinking of pro-choice vs pro-life, and why there is no middle ground.

I definitely do understand your miscarriage argument though.

I agree with Jaded. And to answer the miscarriage comment, we don't tell women who miscarry to "get over it" because that embryo/fetus was a DESIRED, POTENTIAL baby that failed to develop into its baby form. We support their mourning over what was the beginnings of what could have been and their loss. A woman who does not want, essentially, a parasite growing/feeding from her nor the 18+ year responsibility that it develops into should not be forced to subject her body to the mental/emotional/rigors of a pregnancy just to make someone else (especially a man who will NEVER have to undergo the same process) feel good.

[LovingLife123]

I have mixed feelings. I’m a big advocate for women’s health. Education is severely lacking. I’ve heard certain OBs and their “education” on women and it is sorely lacking. I literally wanted to throttle a couple of OBs one day. I feel many have no clue of poverty, the young mind, and how to properly educate these women. I sometimes see post partum women with severe complications.

I personally could never have an abortion. But I do think there are certain situations in which one is warranted.

But I am also a part of several birth sites on the internet. It’s scary how many women use abortion as birth control. And nobody is educating them!! Nobody is educating women who have severe health issues on getting pregnant can cost them their life. We are not educating on the proper use of birth control.

Its mind boggling the excuses I see f or unwanted pregnancies. They all love to say their birth control failed. Or Plan B didn’t work. You would think mirena and the pill had a failure rate of 50%. This is where education is lacking.

A part of me wants to go back to specialize in women’s health. I’ve seen too many mothers die or become severely disabled when an abortion should have occurred or the education was not there to begin with. Saying to someone your body doesn’t handle pregnancy well instead of another pregnancy could kill you is crazy.

But I disagree with it being viewed as a form of birth control. And the sad reality is, with many young people that’s how it is. We don’t do enough sex education and birth control education with out young kids.

[klone, MSN, RN]

My ONLY concern with women "using abortion as birth control" is the effects of the procedure done repeatedly on future fertility. Other than that, I have no moral judgment on why and how often a woman gets an abortion.

I will say that, after years of working with girls and women in a reproductive health setting, that scenario is actually very rare (similar to all the apocryphal women who are getting late term abortions). Seriously, I can count on one hand the number of women I've seen professionally who have had more than 3 abortions. At the very least, it's just really expensive to use abortion as birth control.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

As nurses it's important for us to remain objective and advocate for our patients, and these policies do not allow us to do so and force healthcare professionals to act in their own self-interest to avoid life in prison. We as clinicians live in uncomfortable situations, and this is one of them. I feel that although it is a hot-button issue that leaves many of us fearful of having open discussions, we need to speak up together (I mean politically, nationally, broadcast it and show up at the polls) to advocate for everyone that will suffer under these laws. There are so many vulnerable populations affected by this and the only way to address it is to speak up.

I can't say I've ever met anyone who used an abortion as birth control, and I feel like viewing this issue through this lens is exactly how we got into this mess: abortions are for loose women who make irresponsible choices and they don't put any thought into terminating a pregnancy because they're loose and irresponsible.

This is not the case in the vast majority of pregnancies, and for the minor percentage of people who do view it as birth control, it's none of my g.d. business.

[klone, MSN, RN]

12 minutes ago, sarolaRN said:

I can't say I've ever met anyone who used an abortion as birth control, and I feel like viewing this issue through this lens is exactly how we got into this mess: abortions are for loose women who make irresponsible choices and they don't put any thought into terminating a pregnancy because they're loose and irresponsible.

This is not the case in the vast majority of pregnancies, and for the minor percentage of people who do view it as birth control, it's none of my g.d. business.

Hear hear.

[kat7464]

Abortion is the murder of an innocent human being, plain and simple. You can dance around it all you want and talk about women's rights, but where is the right of the human she is carrying? I am sure plenty will hate me for being pro-life, but the fact is God created humans in His image...we are fearfully and wonderfully made. Every human being has the right to life.

[klone, MSN, RN]

17 minutes ago, kat7464 said:

Abortion is the murder of an innocent human being, plain and simple. You can dance around it all you want and talk about women's rights, but where is the right of the human she is carrying? I am sure plenty will hate me for being pro-life, but the fact is God created humans in His image...we are fearfully and wonderfully made. Every human being has the right to life.

Not everyone believes in your G-d.

The problem is that a fetus cannot live outside of its host. Until such time that it can, then you have the issue of whose rights supercede the other’s. To me, the rights of the living breathing human for body autonomy will always supercede those of the fetus.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

25 minutes ago, kat7464 said:

Abortion is the murder of an innocent human being, plain and simple. You can dance around it all you want and talk about women's rights, but where is the right of the human she is carrying? I am sure plenty will hate me for being pro-life, but the fact is God created humans in His image...we are fearfully and wonderfully made. Every human being has the right to life.

If the fetus is not viable without a host, is having a period murder too? You're saying abortion is murder and you're talking about it as "plain and simple", but that is your opinion. Not everyone believes in your god or any god at all, and nothing about this issue is plain or simple.

Why are children more valuable before they are born than after? Are you also advocating for the children in cages at the border? The LGBTQ+ kids disowned by their parents? The kids whose bodies were mangled by AKs while at school? The 11 year old girls who were raped and are now being forced to carry and her rapist has legal parental rights to the child? The trans man being forced to carry as a man? The woman who didn't want a kid and it's not your business if she carries or not? How is it your right to make such decisions about someone else's life?

My point is, it is none of anyone else's business whether or not you choose to carry a pregnancy to term, and no one is saying that you personally have to. Support the kids that are already here, support the people who are or can be pregnant, support the people who love them whose lives will be impacted by an unwanted pregnancy... if you voice your opinions on kids in cages at the border, starving children, and gun control with as much conviction as about abortion being "murder", then we'll agree on what pro-life means.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

17 hours ago, NICU Guy said:

I love how pro-choice people use semantics instead of calling what it is: killing a human being. When is the last time you heard someone have a "clump of cells" shower instead of a baby shower. Same with a woman that has a miscarriage, do you tell her to stop crying because it was only a clump of cells?

You're making a very strong point in your post here, and it's that people who have baby showers and cry over miscarriages wanted to have children.

I repeat: they wanted to have a baby. They did not want to have an abortion.

No one will tell them how to feel over these things, and those of us who are pro-choice will more often than not support a friend at their baby shower or lend a shoulder to cry on after a miscarriage. Where is the support for those whose lives will be devastated by being forced to have a child?

Try telling a 14 year old rape victim that it's "just a clump of cells". Semantics are not the focus of this conversation, but if this girl is forced to carry then this "clump of cells" is given more rights than she as a living and breathing human and that is what we need to be focusing on: viability.

Sidebar: What I don't understand, though; is how gun control laws won't control guns but abortion bans will stop abortions? Where is the logic here? Creating these bans will put our patients at risk for back alley coat hanger abortions that will jeopardize the lives of viable, breathing members of society.