Women's Right to Choose

[River&MountainRN]

I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

[MEINstudent]

37 minutes ago, sarolarn said:

2 things: there is no such thing as an abortion at 39 weeks because that fetus is viable. Labor is induced and the baby is delivered, not aborted. If the baby is not viable at 39 weeks, it is still induced labor and delivered and allowed to pass or is stillborn. Second, you and the people that you know who are pro-life may have good intentions and volunteer and do this and that, but most of the people affected by abortion bans are not lucky enough to have access to such services, are afraid to seek them, live in areas where they are inaccessible, do not feel safe trying to get them, can't afford to take time off to go, by saying all of these well-meaning things you are still minimizing, diminishing, and deflecting the problem here and it's that your opinions and your feelings should have no weight in making decisions about someone else's life. Period.

In healthcare, everything requires consent. We can't do procedures, take blood, give blood or medications, treatment , or even take vitals without consent in most circumstances. You must give consent to be an organ donor, and if you didn't your organs cannot be harvested. The dead have more of a say over their bodies than pregnant people. Abortion is healthcare, and only the person carrying the fetus should have the final say in what happens to it.

My primary point was that almost all of the responses to OP were outrage over the very restricted access some states are seeking to make law, but in other states, laws are being presented that allow unrestricted access to abortion. So that hypothetically, a 12 year old incest victim in one state may be prevented from aborting, while a 30 year old may be allowed to abort a 39 week fetus. To the best of my knowledge there are at least 7 states that do not stipulate a limit to when a woman can seek an abortion, and the wording of the law is vague (health of the woman? that is a very broad term).

All of the reasons you say why a woman cannot be expected to seek out and utilize the services available to help her carry her baby to term, can be used to say why a woman can't be expected to find a means to abort her baby. So the woman who delivers her baby in a bathroom and discards him in the trash in secret, would you excuse her if she used any of the excuses you list above, for why she couldn't have just legally aborted the fetus she clearly did not want?

And while we are on the topic of consent, the fetus is not part of the woman's body. When you have a gall bladder removed, you are not whole afterward. When you deliver a body, your body is still wholly intact. A fetus is carried within, attached to and dependent on their mother for a finite period of time.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

4 minutes ago, dream'n said:

You are wrong, what do you think partial birth abortion is? It’s when a viable fetus has a needle inserted into the back of its neck to kill it immediately prior to birth, right before the head is delivered. The baby’s head is crowning and many times it’s a perfectly healthy infant. That is why I believe abortion is a gray area. I don’t think all or early abortions should be illegal, but seriously a healthy crowning baby being killed?? That’s another matter entirely.

"partial birth abortion" is a political term, not a medical one; and no one here is advocating for late term abortions. No one here is advocating for abortion at all. I'd like to know what facilities are inducing labor at 39 weeks and then inserting needles into the heads of healthy infants so that I can educate myself on this practice. We're saying it is each person's own right to make their own healthcare decisions, including abortion; and that abortion bans such as the one in Alabama are heinous in that "heartbeat bills" or 6 week abortion bans don't even give the person carrying much time to miss a period. No exceptions for rape and incest.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

4 minutes ago, MEINstudent said:

All of the reasons you say why a woman cannot be expected to seek out and utilize the services available to help her carry her baby to term, can be used to say why a woman can't be expected to find a means to abort her baby. So the woman who delivers her baby in a bathroom and discards him in the trash in secret, would you excuse her if she used any of the excuses you list above, for why she couldn't have just legally aborted the fetus she clearly did not want?

Seeking abortion care once versus seeking prenatal care every few weeks for the duration of the pregnancy, pediatrician visits, time off work for child care, daycare, having to stop going to school, going on welfare, being kicked out of parent's house, being forced to carry as a transgender man, long standing trauma and the care or lack thereof related to a rape, not wanting a kid but being stuck with one and resenting it for it's whole life because you were forced to carry? Why would anyone excuse someone from dropping a healthy infant into the trash? Is that really the best argument against abortion that you have? Access to care is more important the how a baby will affect a persons life? This is not about late term abortions which are complicated and difficult decisions to make, and are a severe minority of abortion cases. This is about cis-het men in congress making decisions about child-bearing individuals and their ability to make decisions about their own lives and making it a felony to terminate a pregnancy at six weeks. SIX WEEKS IS THE PROBLEM. I doubt there are droves of people excited to make a trip to an abortion clinic, it's not usually an easy decision to make and people make it seem like thought doesn't go into the decision to terminate a pregnancy.

[JadedCPN, BSN, RN]

9 minutes ago, sarolarn said:

no one here is advocating for late term abortions. No one here is advocating for abortion at all.

This. It is not about advocating for abortion, its about advocating for the right to choose what is done to my body.

It is not that I want to get an abortion - in fact I know I would be emotionally wrecked if I did. But, I never want kids and to prevent that I take the appropriate responsible action by using contraception with my husband. So despite being married, and despite being responsible, if I were to get pregnant (because yes birth control has a small chance of failing), then yes I would have an abortion because a child is not something that I ever have wanted and ever will want. And I should have that right to do so. Add on top of it that because of a medical condition, carrying a pregnancy to term would risk my life. So I would definitely have an abortion.

That being said, a woman shouldn't have to have a life threatening reason to be given a "pass" for having an abortion.

On the other side of the coin, I also don't think there should be unrestricted access to abortions at every gestational age (i.e. the late term/"partial" abortions being brought up), and I also think it is wrong for the small percent of people who are on abortion number 7, 8 because they don't know how to be responsible or don't have access to responsible contraceptive methods.

But ultimately if I have to choose one extreme or the other, I feel the woman's body, their life, their choice goes above that of a fetus.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

3 minutes ago, JadedCPN said:

That being said, a woman shouldn't have to have a life threatening reason to be given a "pass" for having an abortion.

On the other side of the coin, I also don't think there should be unrestricted access to abortions at any gestational age, and I also think it is wrong for the small percent of people who are on abortion number 7, 8 because they don't know how to be responsible

Agreed. With the exception of life threatening circumstances for the child or the person carrying, I think most pro-choice folks agree that late-term abortion is radical. Abortion isn't a safe or logical birth control method, and pro-choice voters usually enthusiastically support the ideas of universal access to healthcare including prenatal care and education to prevent pregnancies and STIs.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Well, I'm advocating for abortion. But I completely acknowledge that I'm in the minority, even among pro-choice folks.

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

On 5/18/2019 at 5:56 AM, NICU Guy said:

I love how pro-choice people use semantics instead of calling what it is: killing a human being. When is the last time you heard someone have a "clump of cells" shower instead of a baby shower. Same with a woman that has a miscarriage, do you tell her to stop crying because it was only a clump of cells?

A five day old foetus is a clump of cells.

And did you know that cardiac cells can be grown and beat in a petri dish. Yet no one would ever argue that a bunch of beating cardiac cells in a petri dish are alive

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

23 hours ago, kat7464 said:

Abortion is the murder of an innocent human being, plain and simple. You can dance around it all you want and talk about women's rights, but where is the right of the human she is carrying? I am sure plenty will hate me for being pro-life, but the fact is God created humans in His image...we are fearfully and wonderfully made. Every human being has the right to life.

I'd have more respect for the right to life movement if their concerns for the pre born child didnt end at birth.

I was watching a documentary the other day on crisis pregnancy centres. One of the pro life activists was saying how while its ok for centres to provide practical help to new mums they shouldnt go beyond about six months because that would create a dependency

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

My opinion on the topic is pretty simple. If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. You do NOT get to make that choice for someone else. And if you don't have a uterus and therefore cannot be faced with the decision, please shut up about how horrible you believe it is to end a pregnancy. You don't get to choose because you aren't pregnant. Or likely to become so.

When I was first sexually active, way back in the dinosaur days before Roe v. Wade, there was a saying going around that "If men could become pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."

If men don't believe in abortion, perhaps they should refrain from having sex with women with whom they don't wish to reproduce, use condoms and take responsibility for the offspring produced from the rare condom failure.

[NurseBlaq]

I personally wouldn't get an abortion but I believe in the right to choose, especially in cases of incest, rape, and harm to life of the mother. Plus, no man should have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body. If we could police men's bodies the way they try to police ours there wouldn't be a discussion.

I say we mandate sterilization in men so we can't get pregnant since they're hell bent on mandating women have babies despite our wishes. Fair exchange right?

Let me also add the anti-choice crowd always screaming babies have rights soon as a woman is pregnant. If that's their stance, can they mandate child support upon proof of pregnancy? This same crowd does everything they can to NOT provide any form of care for these children once born. They're also against maternity leave but claim to care so much about the unborn. The nerve!

[guest22519]

Nice to see so many people here ready to kill babies. Just call it what it is, murder!

[Soloist, LPN]

I'll preface my comments with disclaimers first...

I'm a male, I'm converted Anabaptist(Conservative Mennonite) and I'm only a student nurse atm. I'm not going into specific doctrinal side of things other than briefly, but feel free to ask privately.

I am pro all life, adults and the unborn. I'm not in favor of war or abortion following the teachings of Jesus.

From a practical side, if anyone ever having an abortion was to tell me I would certainly offer to raise the child for them rather than have the child killed.

I do not vote in any politics as both sides (and others) support waging war or and killing children. Both are equal in my eyes. I reject voting for the lesser of two "evils"

I would still provide medical care to all people regardless of sex, gender, post abortion... no difference. I will not assist in abortions of any kind or some other medical procedures.

Given my stance and views, there are several area's I can never work and I'm okay with that.