Women's Right to Choose

[River&MountainRN]

I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

[PeakRN]

4 hours ago, NightNerd said:

I hear this argument, but it just doesn't ring true to me thinking of all the older children and sibling groups who languish in foster care until they age out of the system and have yo go it alone. Of course it is desirable to adopt an infant; they're little, they're cute, they haven't had time to develop huge behavioral issues, you can spend their whole childhood with them. But older children and sibling groups desperately need families too, and are much harder to place. Why aren't more families welcoming these kids into their homes? Our society needs to start valuing and investing much more heavily in THIS population. I'm not hating on infants and fetuses, but it's heartbreaking to me to think of all the children who are rejected by these potential loving families because they're too old and more complicated to bond with than infants.

Why do these kids end up in foster care? It is typically from poor parenting, not a lack of availability to get an abortion.

It actually is pretty hard to foster kids. I work with quite a few nurses and other medical professionals who have and the red tape involved is quite extensive. There also aren't really that many kids who are appropriate for foster care out in the system. When you think about kids who are in group homes or other state custody these are usually kids who have psych issues, behavioral issues, or criminal issues that make it unsafe for them to be in a foster home.

[PeakRN]

3 hours ago, Ruby Vee said:

YAY!

Suppose someone wanted you to donate a kidney. You're pro-life, so you're in favor of all life, right? There's a new procedure where you can grow a kidney for them in YOUR abdomen, and when it's fully grown, a simple abdominal surgery will remove the new kidney and implant it into the other person. Win/Win, right? Except there are some side effects. You'll be nauseated much of the time, have strong reactions to smells, be dizzy occasionally, get swollen ankles and fatigue easily. You can't drink alcohol or caffeine and strangers feel entitled to feel your belly at all times. Plus your abdomen will grow and grow. It's a small cost to pay to save someone's life, right? Everyone should do it. You should do it. Nevermind that you're training for a triathlon, and you have a good chance of winning, but this stupid kidney thing is slowing you down significantly. Nevermind that this kidney thing is forcing lifestyle changes upon you that you don't want. And you don't get paid for the kidney -- you get to pay for the privilege of growing it. And you don't have health insurance.

Some people don't want to grow kidneys for other people. It's not up to you whether they do so or not.

That is quite the straw man argument isn't it.

[klone, MSN, RN]

So is the analogy between abortion and RIC

[PeakRN]

2 minutes ago, klone said:

So is the analogy between abortion and RIC

Why? We are talking about the autonomy of one's body. And in this case real examples instead of an unplausible hypothetical.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

15 minutes ago, PeakRN said:

We decide which and at what age people can put drugs in their bodies. We regulate which body modifications people can make and how they can go about this. We legislate that it is not legal to sell organs. From a legal basis, there is precedence to decide who gets to do what including what people can do to their own bodies. The morality we can debate, but then that is the whole basis of the disagreement anyway.

I'm curious how those here who are pro-choice feel about parents who circumcise their infants or children. Certainly the same value of autonomy remains, right? Why is there no national push to make circumcision illegal? We know that there is very little medical benefit for elective circumcisions, and certainly not enough to justify it as a routine procedure.

Regardless of age restrictions or legality, people of all ages get access to drugs and alcohol. The same will happen for abortions. I’m not sure what regulation of body modification you’re addressing, but people are pretty free to modify whatever they want to. Selling organs is a safety issue, but we’re free to donate them through specific channels.

I agree that more education should be offered on circumcision, but ultimately it’s not up to me whether you have your kid circumcised just like I can’t decide if a person quits smoking, a CHF patient eats fast food burgers every day, a diabetic patient drinks only Mountain Dew. We can educate and advocate for policy to make changes easier, but if people still want to do what they’re doing, they will and it’s not up to me or you or anyone else.

[PeakRN]

1 minute ago, sarolarn said:

Regardless of age restrictions or legality, people of all ages get access to drugs and alcohol. The same will happen for abortions. I’m not sure what regulation of body modification you’re addressing, but people are pretty free to modify whatever they want to. Selling organs is a safety issue, but we’re free to donate them through specific channels.

I agree that more education should be offered on circumcision, but ultimately it’s not up to me whether you have your kid circumcised just like I can’t decide if a person quits smoking, a CHF patient eats fast food burgers every day, a diabetic patient drinks only Mountain Dew. We can educate and advocate for policy to make changes easier, but if people still want to do what they’re doing, they will and it’s not up to me or you or anyone else.

We regulate tattoo shops, piercing parlors, body modification studios, and so on.

There is quite a bit of extreme body modification that is illegal, either to do to yourself or to have done to you.

Specifically to circumcision, do you not believe the child has a right to their own body? Or is okay for someone else to decide what we do to their body?

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

32 minutes ago, PeakRN said:

I'm curious how those here who are pro-choice feel about parents who circumcise their infants or children. Certainly the same value of autonomy remains, right? Why is there no national push to make circumcision illegal? We know that there is very little medical benefit for elective circumcisions, and certainly not enough to justify it as a routine procedure.

Those of us who are pro-choice probably feel that it is up to the parents to weigh the evidence and choose whether to circumcise their sons. It isn't up to me to make that decision for them. Nor is it up to them to decide whether or not I should have an abortion. I'm not pushing to have circumcision made illegal because it's none of my business. Just like my reproductive choices are none of yours.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

11 minutes ago, PeakRN said:

Specifically to circumcision, do you not believe the child has a right to their own body? Or is okay for someone else to decide what we do to their body?

I haven't met any infants or young children who were capable of understanding the circumcision procedure or it's pros and cons. Or who were legally able to decide such things, much less able to sign.

[PeakRN]

1 minute ago, Ruby Vee said:

I haven't met any infants or young children who were capable of understanding the circumcision procedure or it's pros and cons. Or who were legally able to decide such things, much less able to sign.

But it's not typically a necessary procedure. It isn't the same as placing PE tubes or having an appendectomy.

[klone, MSN, RN]

1 hour ago, PeakRN said:

Why? We are talking about the autonomy of one's body. And in this case real examples instead of an unplausible hypothetical.

Because one is one's own body, and the other is someone else's body

[BSN-to-MSN, ADN, BSN, RN]

I always thought that it's a very personal decision. I had fertility issues, so I would never, ever do an abortion. There are some women who get pregnant all the time after numerous abortions. It saddens me to hear about abortions, the loss of an innocent life. My mom did one after she had me, so there is that. I will never forgive her. I'm grateful she kept my sister afterwards.

In the case of rape, the child is still innocent. It's tragic if the mother cannot see that, she would not be a good mother anyway. Give her the choice, she will answer for it eventually. Even if we outlaw the abortions, they will still happen. Even if we allow them, some women will choose to keep their babies.

[emmjayy, BSN, RN]

I consider myself to be pro-choice. I support a woman's right to choose abstinence, birth control, motherhood, or adoption. This new law does nothing to curtail these choices, therefore I don't really have a problem with it.