Women's Right to Choose

[River&MountainRN]

I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

[MEINstudent]

23 hours ago, sarolarn said:

Seeking abortion care once versus seeking prenatal care every few weeks for the duration of the pregnancy, pediatrician visits, time off work for child care, daycare, having to stop going to school, going on welfare, being kicked out of parent's house, being forced to carry as a transgender man, long standing trauma and the care or lack thereof related to a rape, not wanting a kid but being stuck with one and resenting it for it's whole life because you were forced to carry? Why would anyone excuse someone from dropping a healthy infant into the trash? Is that really the best argument against abortion that you have? Access to care is more important the how a baby will affect a persons life? This is not about late term abortions which are complicated and difficult decisions to make, and are a severe minority of abortion cases. This is about cis-het men in congress making decisions about child-bearing individuals and their ability to make decisions about their own lives and making it a felony to terminate a pregnancy at six weeks. SIX WEEKS IS THE PROBLEM. I doubt there are droves of people excited to make a trip to an abortion clinic, it's not usually an easy decision to make and people make it seem like thought doesn't go into the decision to terminate a pregnancy.

You want to argue that abortion is something not easily chosen. And I have no doubt that it is a painful experience. But statistically, 45% of women who have had abortions, are having more than one. That statistic comes from the Guttmacher Institute, which is pro-choice, and it tells me that abortion is being used as contraception.

The pro-choice position can't have it both ways: saying that there is nothing wrong with it, and then saying that it is a difficult choice. What makes it a difficult choice, if it's not the deliberate ending of the most innocent form of human life?

[klone, MSN, RN]

2 hours ago, no.intervention.required said:

In the case of rape, the child is still innocent. It's tragic if the mother cannot see that, she would not be a good mother anyway. Give her the choice, she will answer for it eventually.

Seriously, WOW!?

[klone, MSN, RN]

1 hour ago, emmjayy said:

I consider myself to be pro-choice. I support a woman's right to choose abstinence, birth control, motherhood, or adoption. This new law does nothing to curtail these choices, therefore I don't really have a problem with it.

And in the case of rape?

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

1 hour ago, MEINstudent said:

You want to argue that abortion is something not easily chosen. And I have no doubt that it is a painful experience. But statistically, 45% of women who have had abortions, are having more than one. That statistic comes from the Guttmacher Institute, which is pro-choice, and it tells me that abortion is being used as contraception.

The pro-choice position can't have it both ways: saying that there is nothing wrong with it, and then saying that it is a difficult choice. What makes it a difficult choice, if it's not the deliberate ending of the most innocent form of human life?

If your look at the study that reports the 45% figure, it also goes on to state that the older the woman, the more likely she was to have had an abortion, but there could have been a decade or more between abortions. To me, this doesn't indicate abortion as contraception.

They also state "each abortion is a unique event, occurring in the context of particular situational needs in a woman's life, rather than a repeated behavior." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5771530/

[NightNerd, MSN, RN]

4 hours ago, PeakRN said:

Why do these kids end up in foster care? It is typically from poor parenting, not a lack of availability to get an abortion.

It actually is pretty hard to foster kids. I work with quite a few nurses and other medical professionals who have and the red tape involved is quite extensive. There also aren't really that many kids who are appropriate for foster care out in the system. When you think about kids who are in group homes or other state custody these are usually kids who have psych issues, behavioral issues, or criminal issues that make it unsafe for them to be in a foster home.

Certainly, people have the right to decide for themselves if they are able to care for those children with behavioral and legal issues. If they aren't, they wisely do not assume the responsibility of raising a child. A woman getting an abortion is doing the exact same thing. It's not a choice anyone makes jumping up and down happily. It's humbling yourself enough to realize, "I can't do this. I don't have the physical, financial, spiritual reserves to continue this pregnancy for months on end, let alone deliver and then raise a baby." Our society needs to have the same realization: we can't do this.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

2 hours ago, MEINstudent said:

But statistically, 45% of women who have had abortions, are having more than one. That statistic comes from the Guttmacher Institute, which is pro-choice, and it tells me that abortion is being used as contraception.

Ok, who are these 45%? how old are they? are they having these abortions once a quarter, or once every 10 years? Do they already have children and can’t afford more? Even if she IS having an abortion once per quarter, that’s her choice. Why is she having abortions 4x per year, does she not have access to birth control in another form? Partner won’t allow her to so she sneaks out? I’m doubtful that anyone is using an abortion as BC because there are SO MANY easier, less expensive, less physically taxing, and so many less risky options out there. In the case that someone might be using an abortion as birth control, how can we help that population?

Pro-choice remains pro-choice, and if a person doesn’t want to be pregnant then they have the choice not to be. We can agree that prevention is key, but we sometimes hear the same people tooting the pro-life horn that abstinence is best and vote to remove sex ed from school curricula. Can’t have both.

Pro-choice is not synonymous with pro-abortion, and I believe that we need to amp up efforts to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Even if we universally implement rigorous sex ed programs in schools, increase funding and accessibility to reproductive health clinics, primary care, etc; unwanted pregnancies will still occur. In those cases, the person carrying should have the ability to choose not to be, all other circumstances aside. Judgment had no place in nursing, and our opinions should not have a place in our care delivery. Six-week abortion bans are absurd, and this is being discussed because a 6 week ban does not allow a pregnant person time to act before a heartbeat is detected. So many people will be negatively affected by such law, and this is the issue at hand. Not late term abortions. Not repeat abortions. The fact that many women will be denied the opportunity to choose before they even learn they are pregnant- before it’s too late.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Oh, so now more than 1 abortion = "using abortion as birth control"?

Ridiculous.

Even so...so what? Like I said earlier in this thread - my only concern with "using abortion as birth control" which in reality rarely happens, is repeated abortions' effects on future fertility.

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

Has anyone been watching Call the Midwife? This season they have been showing the impact of back alley abortions over several episodes.

[BSNbound21, BSN, RN]

I have lost friends over this issue, and have now written one of my family members off. It's not something I go around talking about, but if someone else is speaking out against my personal rights, I'll say something.

Believe what you want to believe. I have no issue with that. If you're against abortions then don't have one. Why should your beliefs dictate my access to medical care? If I were to go to the doctor and take an RU-486, you'd never even know. How does that affect you? I just don't understand the ignorance behind these laws.

My stance is zero tolerance for those in support of these laws. Not abortion- the laws.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

On 5/18/2019 at 7:22 AM, umbdude said:

Let's put responsibilities on men too. What are men doing so they're not contributing to unwanted pregnancies? How are men held responsible when pregnancies occur?

Men must pay child support unless they are dead or in prison.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

On 5/18/2019 at 9:43 AM, JadedCPN said:

To me, this is not a human being. It is the beginning of the development of one, but it is not one at all and it's rights should not come before any other human's. But that's part of the principal differences of viewpoints/thinking of pro-choice vs pro-life, and why there is no middle ground.

I definitely do understand your miscarriage argument though.

I am pro-choice, but this is not a clear-cut issue. If fetuses are not "human beings," then why are pregnant women subject to punishment for child abuse for drug abuse during pregnancy? A pregnant woman who smokes or drinks alcohol faces severe social stigma.

Personally, I am pro-choice in the 1st and 2nd trimesters, but am not ok with 3rd trimester abortions unless the mother's life in in danger or the fetus has a condition incompatible with life. Once the fetus is viable outside the womb, then I view it as a person, a baby.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

4 minutes ago, FullGlass said:

Men must pay child support unless they are dead or in prison.

???? just because they’re supposed to doesn’t mean they do. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/cb18-tps03.html

Child support doesn’t stop pregnancies and won’t stop abortions.