Women's Right to Choose

[River&MountainRN]

I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

4 minutes ago, FullGlass said:

Men must pay child support unless they are dead or in prison.

Doesn't mean they do. My sister's ex-husband is $16,000 behind on child support.

I'm of the opinion my body, my choice. For me, I don't know that I could make a choice for abortion- I've never found myself in a situation. But for every other woman out there, she has the same right to make that choice.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

1 minute ago, sarolarn said:

???? just because they’re supposed to doesn’t mean they do. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/cb18-tps03.html

Child support doesn’t stop pregnancies and won’t stop abortions.

I agree men don't always do this, but believe me, law enforcement takes it very seriously. A man's wages can be garnished and so forth. My brother, who is very responsible, got divorced at a young age. He paid child support religiously. One day, police showed up at his door and were going to arrest him for not paying child support! His ex-wife, out of spite, had reported him. My brother showed the police all the cancelled checks for child support and then the police left him alone.

I have had male patients who literally had like $300 per month to live on after paying child support.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

On 5/18/2019 at 8:15 PM, sarolarn said:

You're making a very strong point in your post here, and it's that people who have baby showers and cry over miscarriages wanted to have children.

I repeat: they wanted to have a baby. They did not want to have an abortion.

No one will tell them how to feel over these things, and those of us who are pro-choice will more often than not support a friend at their baby shower or lend a shoulder to cry on after a miscarriage. Where is the support for those whose lives will be devastated by being forced to have a child?

Try telling a 14 year old rape victim that it's "just a clump of cells". Semantics are not the focus of this conversation, but if this girl is forced to carry then this "clump of cells" is given more rights than she as a living and breathing human and that is what we need to be focusing on: viability.

Sidebar: What I don't understand, though; is how gun control laws won't control guns but abortion bans will stop abortions? Where is the logic here? Creating these bans will put our patients at risk for back alley coat hanger abortions that will jeopardize the lives of viable, breathing members of society.

I am pro-choice. Most women do not "want" an abortion. I don't know of any women who dream of having an abortion some day. The overwhelming reason women have abortions is financial. So the best solution is to make it possible for women to afford to have children, even if unplanned. Also to do a much better job with education women and men on birth control.

Even most pro-life advocates support abortion in the case of rape, incest, minor children getting pregnant, and if the life of the mother is in jeopardy. The Alabama law was designed so that it would go to the Supreme Court to challenge Roe vs Wade and there are no plans to enforce it at present. Many legal scholars, including very liberal ones, consider Roe vs Wade to be a bad decision from a legal perspective. Basically, it ruled the right to abortion as part of the right to privacy. That creates kind of a slippery slope. Ending a human life is not protected by the right to privacy and if one believes abortion = murder, then there is obviously a huge issue here. And that is the key question - when does life begin? Science does not provide an answer to this.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

On 5/19/2019 at 9:46 PM, Tenebrae said:

A five day old foetus is a clump of cells.

And did you know that cardiac cells can be grown and beat in a petri dish. Yet no one would ever argue that a bunch of beating cardiac cells in a petri dish are alive

Actually, cells can be alive or dead.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

On 5/19/2019 at 7:09 PM, NurseBlaq said:

I personally wouldn't get an abortion but I believe in the right to choose, especially in cases of incest, rape, and harm to life of the mother. Plus, no man should have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body. If we could police men's bodies the way they try to police ours there wouldn't be a discussion.

I say we mandate sterilization in men so we can't get pregnant since they're hell bent on mandating women have babies despite our wishes. Fair exchange right?

Let me also add the anti-choice crowd always screaming babies have rights soon as a woman is pregnant. If that's their stance, can they mandate child support upon proof of pregnancy? This same crowd does everything they can to NOT provide any form of care for these children once born. They're also against maternity leave but claim to care so much about the unborn. The nerve!

I am pro-choice. Men are mandated to provide child support. I'm not sure if that begins during the prenatal phase or at birth.

Women can't have it both ways. If we demand men pay child support if we choose to have a child, we can't also demand that men have no say about abortion, logically. What if the man in question is the husband and really wants the baby? That is not such a clear-cut issue.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

14 minutes ago, FullGlass said:

I have had male patients who literally had like $300 per month to live on after paying child support.

This is problematic, but I’m not sure what a viable solution would be. Child support won’t deter men from impregnating women. Prevention, education, and an understanding of equal rights might. Men need to be responsible and understand the consequences of irresponsible sex- not pulling out, taking off a condom, disposing of birth control pills, coercing a partner into letting him not wear a condom etc. Men are able to decide 100% of the time whether they will put someone at risk of becoming pregnant, and instead women are blamed when they become pregnant.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

12 hours ago, BiscuitRN said:

Roe v Wade came into place because botched abortions became a public health crisis. Regardless of my personal beliefs, I can see that denying access to abortions wouldn't stop abortions. It will make abortions less safe and likely lead to women (and their unborn children) dying or the babies being born with significant disfigurement. What I really would love to see is more access to birth control and education on sexual health and birth control for young people along with help for young parents to allow them to excel to their highest potential.

We could debate all day about if abortion is ethically or morally right or wrong, but we've all heard the arguments before and probably won't change our minds on the base issue.

I am pro-choice. It is simply not true that outlawing abortion will cause a bunch of maternal deaths due to back alley abortions. That is a myth.

"But abortion-related deaths are much less common than they were a few decades ago, especially in countries with functional health-care systems. Since the early ’90s, abortion fatalities have declined by 42 percent globally. This is despite the fact that about 45 percent of all the abortions in the world are still performed in “unsafe” circumstances—meaning without the help of a trained professional or with an outdated medical method . . . For one thing, doctors have gotten better at controlling bleeding in recent decades. But there has also been a major revolution in how clandestine abortions are performed. Since the 1970s, women around the world have been able to take a common and cheap stomach-ulcer drug, misoprostol, to end their pregnancies without anyone knowing. It’s even more effective when taken in combination with another drug, mifepristone . . . Irish women had good outcomes using the Women on Web pills. In a study Aiken conducted in 2016 of 1,000 self-managed abortions, 95 percent were able to end their pregnancies without surgical interventions, and just 3 percent required a blood transfusion or antibiotics. There were no deaths."

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/10/how-many-women-die-illegal-abortions/572638/

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

Had to watch a severly deformed newborn die because he was missing the skeletal structure required for breathing. If this horrible death could have been prevented with an abortion, I'm all for it. No parent should have to watch a baby die post partum. The mom, in the case above, was high on crack (they need a dose before coming in to deliver) and wasn't aware what was going on so she was spared that.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

34 minutes ago, FullGlass said:

Men must pay child support unless they are dead or in prison.

And 61% of that child support actually gets paid. So women deal with the emotional and physical pain and the guy gets away with 61% of his financial obligation.

[frenchtoastwaffles, BSN, RN]

Someone referred to a Guttmacher study and left a lot of info out. Sure 45% of people who have had an abortion had more than one, but the other statistics are much more startling.

How many abortions are had by women at or below the poverty line?

how many are POC?

How many already have children?

Who do you think a ban on abortion will affect most? Women of color at or below the poverty line who already have kids to feed.

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/induced-abortion-united-states

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

On 5/20/2019 at 10:44 PM, FullGlass said:

I am pro-choice. Men are mandated to provide child support. I'm not sure if that begins during the prenatal phase or at birth.

Women can't have it both ways. If we demand men pay child support if we choose to have a child, we can't also demand that men have no say about abortion, logically. What if the man in question is the husband and really wants the baby? That is not such a clear-cut issue.

Women don’t get anything “both ways.” Women get forced into sex, forced into forgoing birth control and blamed when we “get ourselves” pregnant. More like men have it both ways.

The issue is pretty clear cut to me. My body, my choice. If the man can get pregnant, it’s his choice.

[BSNbound21, BSN, RN]

5 hours ago, emmjayy said:

I consider myself to be pro-choice. I support a woman's right to choose abstinence, birth control, motherhood, or adoption. This new law does nothing to curtail these choices, therefore I don't really have a problem with it.

"Pro-choice" is the term widely recognized to mean pro-choice to have an abortion. You can consider yourself whatever you'd like, but your language is incorrect. You can't just change the language because you don't like it. I don't like "pro-life" but when discussing my views, I am not "pro-life" as is traditionally understood.