Women's Right to Choose

Scrunchkin78, ADN, BSN, MSN · May 22, 2019

1 hour ago, morte said:
as a christian, why are you against abortion? there is NO proscription against it in the bible, in fact there is a prescription FOR it.... If happened in christ's time, and he did not speak against it.

Quote the book and verse that says abortions are okay in the Bible....

As for what the Bible REALLY thinks about abortion...go to Exodus “Thou shalt not kill”.

Orion81RN · May 22, 2019

2 hours ago, Nancy_NurseFromTN said:
What I'm reading here scares the heck outa me! I'm 70 y/o retired nurse and we lived by the ideal that you save life!
Why is no one on here talking about abstinence in teenagers?

Maybe it's your age, but I'm absolutely baffled as to how you can be so incredibly naive. Preaching abstinence CAUSES abortions. Are you really that out of touch?! Inadequate sex education and pure push of abstinence is the WORST thing you can do to decrease abortions. You REALLY think teens and early 20 somethings are not going to have sex? No matter how much abstinence bs is shoved down their throats? Wow. Just. Wow.

guest317 · May 22, 2019

Abstinence is the best policy and when society began saying it was okay to have sex outside of marriage and promoting that kind of thinking, the problems only intensified. When I went to school we did not have sex education classes because we knew sex was something special that happened with the right person, sex was not just to have fun or get your name on the school sex roster. Abstinence does not cause abortions, not using some form of birth control causes abortions. There are many women that use abortion as a means of birth control. They get pregnant over and over and go for abortions. Where is the education for this person that killing a growing child is not birth control?? Somewhere these abortion clinics or Planned Parenthood are not doing a very good job of educating the women who use their services.

Scrunchkin78, ADN, BSN, MSN · May 22, 2019

19 minutes ago, Orion81RN said:
Maybe it's your age, but I'm absolutely baffled as to how you can be so incredibly naive. Preaching abstinence CAUSES abortions. Are you really that out of touch?! Inadequate sex education and pure push of abstinence is the WORST thing you can do to decrease abortions. You REALLY think teens and early 20 somethings are not going to have sex? No matter how much abstinence bs is shoved down their throats? Wow. Just. Wow.

What baffles me is all the people that seem to think we still live in the 40’s and 50’s. Girls don’t have to be hidden because they are pregnant anymore. We don’t have secret homes for unwed mothers as a rule anymore. This isn’t the times of the Cider House Rules. With a single motherhood rate over 50% for whites and over 70% for blacks, I’d say we have come to terms with single parenting as a society. So this garbage about girls going back to coat hangers is just that...garbage. There is far more support services and contraceptive availability now than there has been at ANY other time in history. Don’t degrade decades of female and societal progress to prove a point on abortion. Abstinence should absolutely be taught but also birth control. Having available birth control is what prevents abortions. Besides...birth rates are down due to Netflix binging...maybe we can incorporate that in sex ed too.

Orion81RN · May 22, 2019

32 minutes ago, Scrunchkin78 said:
What baffles me is all the people that seem to think we still live in the 40’s and 50’s. Girls don’t have to be hidden because they are pregnant anymore. We don’t have secret homes for unwed mothers as a rule anymore. This isn’t the times of the Cider House Rules. With a single motherhood rate over 50% for whites and over 70% for blacks, I’d say we have come to terms with single parenting as a society. So this garbage about girls going back to coat hangers is just that...garbage. There is far more support services and contraceptive availability now than there has been at ANY other time in history. Don’t degrade decades of female and societal progress to prove a point on abortion. Abstinence should absolutely be taught but also birth control. Having available birth control is what prevents abortions. Besides...birth rates are down due to Netflix binging...maybe we can incorporate that in sex ed too.

You either misunderstood me or are quoting the wrong person.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · May 23, 2019

I’m going to get vulnerable for a bit and share my experience and hopefully tie it into nursing. I had an abortion when I was a teenager that I DID NOT WANT... I did it because I felt like I had no choice (an ironic aspect to the term “pro-choice” if you ask me.)

My parents laid out some very specific financial sacrifices they would have to make to help me, should I have the baby — including that they wouldn’t be able to pay for my younger sister’s college... particularly tragic because she was smarter than me (yes, they said that.) My dad co-owned a small plane with a few other guys; learning to fly had been a lifelong dream, and he would have to give that up. They also talked about how disappointed in me my grandparents would be, and how the shame would affect my younger sister.... which terrified me away from the adoption choice. It was VERY emotionally manipulative, and it went on for HOURS.

Now for the nursing tie-in.

At the “clean hospital” that my parents made the appointment at, I was called into an office for my “counseling session.” I spoke with an LPN who in hindsight DRASTICALLY downplayed the risk of emotional trauma. She said I may cry for a while, but most women feel relieved. (I immediately developed what I now recognize as textbook PTSD sx. Plus I have more recently been diagnosed with PTSD related to other things, and the effects were nearly identical.)

I had this trust of nurses... we are the most trusted profession after all, and my teenaged self even recognized it. I told her “I don’t want to do this... can you help me talk to my mom?” She agreed and went to get my mom.

Then... and I am shaking and crying now recalling this.... they BOTH proceeded to remind me why this was really the only thing that made sense.

Then this LPN gave me the consent form to sign, and as soon as I signed it gave me a soufflé-type med cup with a dose of Valium.

I don’t remember the physician speaking to me at all, except to tell me the position to assume. Later learning that a legally-defined INFORMED consent requires the SURGEON to explain the risks, benefits, and ALTERNATIVES... made me angrier than I have words for.

The clearly “pro-choice” staff at this clinic DIDN’T OBTAIN INFORMED CONSENT from me.

This is perhaps a lesser form of bad nursing practice, but in the recovery area I don’t remember having my pain or bleeding assessed. Ok, so the lack of assessment of my bleeding was seriously bad nursing practice... good thing I wasn’t hemorrhaging under those heated blankets. ?

I don’t know what the answer is.... I do believe that the unborn baby is fully human, as is the newborn and the adolescent and the elder. I also recognize that I have never been in the position of being impregnated by my father, or have never been in a family where honor killings are a thing... or other cases where I might truly want an abortion without telling anyone. I suppose in an imperfect world there IS NO perfect answer.

What I DO know is if my experience is at all normative? That is all sorts of wrong and should NEVER happen. I have a huge amount of respect for some of the AN members in here who vocally support abortion rights.... and I implore you to do what you can to ensure a TRUE choice. Especially when working with young and vulnerable patients whose pre-frontal corteces have not fully developed, and who depend on you to advise them on this lifelong decision.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · May 23, 2019

What you describe isn't choice, it was coercion.

That is bad practice, but many doctors and procedures have had bad practices, but we don't outlaw those medical procedures

And again, nothing about the fetus changes the fact you are expecting a person to provide their body and possibly their life to someone or something else. In no other circumstance is that ever required.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · May 23, 2019

Also, until they try just as hard to outlaw IVF, then it's just about women's bodies and shaming and punishing women.

tachyallday, BSN · May 23, 2019

here is the issue:

pro-lifer's honestly believe the embroyo/fetus/baby is SEPARATE from the mother, and feel they are protecting an innocent life, not rolling back women's rights.

pro-choicer's honestly feel the embroyo/fetus/baby is PART of the mother's body, and feel they are protecting the autonomy of the woman, not infringing on a separate human's life.

There is no way to agree on this, unless science an determine for us when life (or personhood begins), and when when we begin to feel pain.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · May 23, 2019

On 5/22/2019 at 9:04 PM, tachyallday said:
here is the issue:
pro-lifer's honestly believe the embroyo/fetus/baby is SEPARATE from the mother, and feel they are protecting an innocent life, not rolling back women's rights.
pro-choicer's honestly feel the embroyo/fetus/baby is PART of the mother's body, and feel they are protecting the autonomy of the woman, not infringing on a separate human's life.
There is no way to agree on this, unless science an determine for us when life (or personhood begins), and when when we begin to feel pain.

Take the fetus out intact, what happens?

OldDude · May 23, 2019

2 hours ago, Here.I.Stand said:
I’m going to get vulnerable for a bit and share my experience and hopefully tie it into nursing. I had an abortion when I was a teenager that I DID NOT WANT... I did it because I felt like I had no choice (an ironic aspect to the term “pro-choice” if you ask me.)
My parents laid out some very specific financial sacrifices they would have to make to help me, should I have the baby — including that they wouldn’t be able to pay for my younger sister’s college... particularly tragic because she was smarter than me (yes, they said that.) My dad co-owned a small plane with a few other guys; learning to fly had been a lifelong dream, and he would have to give that up. They also talked about how disappointed in me my grandparents would be, and how the shame would affect my younger sister.... which terrified me away from the adoption choice. It was VERY emotionally manipulative, and it went on for HOURS.
Now for the nursing tie-in.
At the “clean hospital” that my parents made the appointment at, I was called into an office for my “counseling session.” I spoke with an LPN who in hindsight DRASTICALLY downplayed the risk of emotional trauma. She said I may cry for a while, but most women feel relieved. (I immediately developed what I now recognize as textbook PTSD sx. Plus I have more recently been diagnosed with PTSD related to other things, and the effects were nearly identical.)
I had this trust of nurses... we are the most trusted profession after all, and my teenaged self even recognized it. I told her “I don’t want to do this... can you help me talk to my mom?” She agreed and went to get my mom.
Then... and I am shaking and crying now recalling this.... they BOTH proceeded to remind me why this was really the only thing that made sense.
Then this LPN gave me the consent form to sign, and as soon as I signed it gave me a soufflé-type med cup with a dose of Valium.
I don’t remember the physician speaking to me at all, except to tell me the position to assume. Later learning that a legally-defined INFORMED consent requires the SURGEON to explain the risks, benefits, and ALTERNATIVES... made me angrier than I have words for.
The clearly “pro-choice” staff at this clinic DIDN’T OBTAIN INFORMED CONSENT from me.
This is perhaps a lesser form of bad nursing practice, but in the recovery area I don’t remember having my pain or bleeding assessed. Ok, so the lack of assessment of my bleeding was seriously bad nursing practice... good thing I wasn’t hemorrhaging under those heated blankets. ?
I don’t know what the answer is.... I do believe that the unborn baby is fully human, as is the newborn and the adolescent and the elder. I also recognize that I have never been in the position of being impregnated by my father, or have never been in a family where honor killings are a thing... or other cases where I might truly want an abortion without telling anyone. I suppose in an imperfect world there IS NO perfect answer.
What I DO know is if my experience is at all normative? That is all sorts of wrong and should NEVER happen. I have a huge amount of respect for some of the AN members in here who vocally support abortion rights.... and I implore you to do what you can to ensure a TRUE choice. Especially when working with young and vulnerable patients whose pre-frontal corteces have not fully developed, and who depend on you to advise them on this lifelong decision.

If I could I’d hug you up real big and long. What courage to share this with us!! Thank you! I challenge those who talk about abortion, offer opinions, and rage at those who disagree with them, but have never been in your situation, to sit back, read your post over and over, and reevaluate...wow! Thank you!!

Scrunchkin78, ADN, BSN, MSN · May 23, 2019

2 hours ago, LilPeanut said:
Take the fetus out intact, what happens?

You have ended a life.