Women's Right to Choose

Nurses General Nursing

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I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

Specializes in Practice educator.
14 hours ago, LilPeanut said:

I work with neonates. We have babies born that survive at 22-23 weeks. They feel pain. We would never perform surgery on them without pain control. That is inhumane and cruel.

https://www-ncbi-nlm-nih-gov/pubmed/27299745
https://www-ncbi-nlm-nih-gov/pubmed/25854616

I am strongly prochoice. That doesn't mean I have to ignore science. Until a fetus can survive without a specific person, it doesn't matter whether it feels pain or not, except in how we treat them in the termination. I am for including opiates when terminating or a termination method that is painless.

My wife's a neonatal sister, she's not convinced they feel pain at that age just like the science isn't, doesn't mean she doesn't treat them as they do. Of course you're going to use pain control during surgery, they use anaesthetic for quadriplegics too, that isn't even in question.

The question is, is there any study that gives conclusive proof either way? The answer will be no.

I agree with the latter, pain is not really relevant, every medical procedure can cause pain, it doesn't mean you don't do it.

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Specializes in Practice educator.
On 5/22/2019 at 5:31 PM, catladyx8 said:

I have just as much right to post my disagreement with abortion as anyone who posts their agreement with abortion.

Yeah, but just like everyone else we have the right to be argumentative. Basing your decision made in the 20th century on a 2000 year old book written by men who had only the most basic understanding of the world seems a poor defence for anything.

Religion has no place in the discussion of abortion.

On 5/22/2019 at 10:37 PM, OldDude said:

If I could I’d hug you up real big and long. What courage to share this with us!! Thank you! I challenge those who talk about abortion, offer opinions, and rage at those who disagree with them, but have never been in your situation, to sit back, read your post over and over, and reevaluate...wow! Thank you!!

I'm unclear how you think this would make anyone reevaluate their position on abortion with this? The clinic that offered the abortion did a shoddy job, how is that relevant?

I don't base my ethical positions on anecdotal evidence of poor practice no matter how emotional it gets. I feel for Here.I.Stand but its completely inconsequential to me.

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Specializes in Practice educator.
13 hours ago, catladyx8 said:

Abstinence is the best policy and when society began saying it was okay to have sex outside of marriage and promoting that kind of thinking, the problems only intensified. When I went to school we did not have sex education classes because we knew sex was something special that happened with the right person, sex was not just to have fun or get your name on the school sex roster. Abstinence does not cause abortions, not using some form of birth control causes abortions. There are many women that use abortion as a means of birth control. They get pregnant over and over and go for abortions. Where is the education for this person that killing a growing child is not birth control?? Somewhere these abortion clinics or Planned Parenthood are not doing a very good job of educating the women who use their services.

The 1800s are missing you.

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.
1 hour ago, osceteacher said:

...I'm unclear how you think this would make anyone reevaluate their position on abortion with this? The clinic that offered the abortion did a shoddy job, how is that relevant?

I don't base my ethical positions on anecdotal evidence of poor practice no matter how emotional it gets. I feel for Here.I.Stand but its completely inconsequential to me.

I have never had an abortion and I never will so EVERYTHING I think or say is conceptual...I can only "imagine" the experience; just like everyone else who has an opinion about abortion but has never experienced one. Here.I.Stand comes from real life experience and understands the dynamics, pro and con, and was thoughtful and courageous enough to share with us...so yes hopefully, that would cause someone, in my position, to reevaluate their thoughts about abortion - pro or con. It reinforces to me that every pregnancy is unique as well as the circumstances and the dynamics, but I understand, and accept, "its completely inconsequential" to you.

Simply stated...if you've never actually played the game of football your're input about the game simply makes you an "armchair quarterback."

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Specializes in Practice educator.
On 5/23/2019 at 9:03 AM, OldDude said:

I have never had an abortion and I never will so EVERYTHING I think or say is conceptual...I can only "imagine" the experience; just like everyone else who has an opinion about abortion but has never experienced one. Here.I.Stand comes from real life experience and understands the dynamics, pro and con, and was thoughtful and courageous enough to share with us...so yes hopefully, that would cause someone, in my position, to reevaluate their thoughts about abortion - pro or con. It reinforces to me that every pregnancy is unique as well as the circumstances and the dynamics, but I understand, and accept, "its completely inconsequential" to you.

Simply stated...if you've never actually played the game of football your're input about the game simply makes you an "armchair quarterback."

I don't disagree with the idea that its good to hear from those who have experienced it, but it certainly wouldn't make me re evaluate my ethical position on something. Likewise if a person said what a caring compassionate experience she had at an abortion clinic would have no consequence on that position, I can't allow anecdotes to influence me unduly or I'd never be happy in my job the amount of things that happen in healthcare.

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On 5/21/2019 at 9:31 PM, nursej22 said:

Also, can you quote the verse(s) where Jesus condemned abortion?

Another example of someone using their own personal religion to back their argument -devoid of actual facts- in order to guilt/shame others into agreeing with them.

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.
On 5/23/2019 at 9:31 AM, osceteacher said:

...I can't allow anecdotes to influence me unduly or I'd never be happy in my job the amount of things that happen in healthcare.

True that!!

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1 hour ago, BSNbound21 said:

Another example of someone using their own personal religion to back their argument -devoid of actual facts- in order to guilt/shame others into agreeing with them.

Asking someone to back up a statement they used to assert that "Jesus is okay with abortion" has nothing to do with shaming or being devoid of facts. It is actually asking for a factual basis for the comment (which is utterly ridiculous). BTW, I don't need the bible to tell me that human life is valuable. If you need a book to grasp that basic concept then you are in the wrong profession.

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7 hours ago, osceteacher said:

The 1800s are missing you.

And morality is missing you. Asking planned parenthood to do their "supposed" job is a pretty modern and reasonable request. They "say" they provide healthcare - if they aren't teaching about contraception before they scrape the baby out of the egg donors uterus then they aren't doing their jobs and are undeserving of their funding.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
2 minutes ago, Scrunchkin78 said:

And morality is missing you. Asking planned parenthood to do their "supposed" job is a pretty modern and reasonable request. They "say" they provide healthcare - if they aren't teaching about contraception before they scrape the baby out of the egg donors uterus then they aren't doing their jobs and are undeserving of their funding.

If every school were permit to teach sex education unfettered, more girls would be exposed to better information on birth control and hence, less abortions. But one thing about the 1800....teenagers got married because knowing farm skills could get one through life. Today, that kind of work is almost obsolete with mechanicals replacing humans. Can't blame Planned Parenthood because they don't ride around the neighborhood rounding up people onto buses and forcing them to watch their presentations. Can't we just come to an agreement to make it safe, legal and rare?

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17 hours ago, LilPeanut said:

Also, until they try just as hard to outlaw IVF, then it's just about women's bodies and shaming and punishing women.

And this is why we can't have civilized discussions about this topic. You automatically assume that anyone who doesn't agree with you has some kind of bad motivation. How about I just assume you hate babies and want to kill them all?? Is that really a productive mindset to find some resolution to this issue?

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1 minute ago, subee said:

If every school were permit to teach sex education unfettered, more girls would be exposed to better information on birth control and hence, less abortions. But one thing about the 1800....teenagers got married because knowing farm skills could get one through life. Today, that kind of work is almost obsolete with mechanicals replacing humans. Can't blame Planned Parenthood because they don't ride around the neighborhood rounding up people onto buses and forcing them to watch their presentations. Can't we just come to an agreement to make it safe, legal and rare?

I am totally good with sex ed - it certainly doesn't have to be the sole domain of PP. Sex ed and contraception are great because they help prevent an unwanted pregnancy in the first place. And, No we can't agree because abortion should not be used as a contraceptive. Killing a baby for convenience is NOT okay. Health care reasons are entirely different and definitely belong between a doctor and the woman. I am all for saving the life of the mother, even if it is a mental health issue. I am also in favor of terminating pregnancies where the baby is or will be stillborn. There is no reason in our advanced society that we should need abortions just to have them. Killing healthy life is not moral.

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