Why do nurses constantly say they don't hire ASN?

Altra, BSN, RN · May 8, 2013

They're not saying that for any personal gain. The requirements for a hospital to obtain and maintain Magnet status are here (it is a lot of reading but I assume you have an interest in the topic):

Magnet Recognition Program^Â® FAQ: Data and Expected Outcomes

Some highlights of the educational requirements: 80% of staff RNs must attain a BSN by 2020, 100% of nurse managers must have at least a BSN, and nursing executives above the manager level must have at least a master's degree.

Google can be a great source of information, before you conclude that people's comments are in error or being made out of some kind of personal vendetta.

dance4life · May 8, 2013

Obviously you didn't read anything I typed.

They are SAYING HOSPITALS DON'T HIRE ASNs right now at this moment in 2013. As a matter of fact I have been getting these comments for the past 2 years now, so... No where did I ask in the topic "what Magnet Status is, was, or what it is implementing" thank you for concluding that I am implying that people are in error or they are doing it for their personal gain. Which in fact they are because it obviously isn't 2020, but when it is, and when these Magnet hospitals stop hiring ASNs they can certainly start stating so. But, I guess they won't because maybe their won't be any ASNs in sight. I obviously don't need Google and I think there are better resources then you posted for information for nurses about what Magnet status is. Thanks for your smart remarks, right back at ya!

Again... my question is why say it unless you are a hiring manager or work in HR?

Altra, BSN, RN · May 8, 2013

No, it is not yet 2020. But did you consider that a hospital may be pursuing Magnet status before then, or that if they already are Magnet, they're probably motivated to maintain that accreditation? It is only logical that if this is a hospital's goal, then hiring of non-BSNs will be limited at best.

dance4life · May 8, 2013

No, it is not yet 2020. But did you consider that a hospital may be pursuing Magnet status before then, or that if they already are Magnet, they're probably motivated to maintain that accreditation? It is only logical that if this is a hospital's goal, then hiring of non-BSNs will be limited at best.

No I don't consider it because I live in the now.

These are already Magnet Hospitals, please read the topic. I have been asked to work at three Magnet hospitals. Three... because it isn't 2020. Two I have declined. Even though they are Magnet does not mean they are the best to work at. Actually terrible IMO. One I am considering, because I really like my contract here. Why have I been considered? I am not a Nobel Peace Prize winner or something. If someone is not a hiring manager or works in HR they should just zip it I guess. You just don't know, you just don't. So if you are a Staff Nurse stop telling people they can't work somewhere.

There are also other ASN that work there too as permanent staff or have been hired as ASN. While looking through job boards I noticed that some say you can have an ASN with experience, BSN preferred, etc. Pres is the only one that doesn't let you in online, but if you get in through travel, agency, or through someone you know it happens. Just saying... Or, even if you are in a program.

I am not telling people not to get their BSNs do it! Get your MSN even. I see this happening in the Magnets. But, gee wiz don't put others down because they haven't had the chance to. Me myself I have been stuck in Travel. I do find it mean and rude though. IMO

Tait, MSN, RN · May 8, 2013

Because people only know half the story and talk like they know the whole thing? I would take an ADN with 8 years of experience over the cost of a new BSN grad atm, but then again as a bridged ADN I have love for the Associate route. Plus there is still a lot of time for an ADN to bridge (online it is 18 months, sometimes less) if you go by the 80 by 2020 rule, and the tuition reimbursement would be cheaper than the new grad.

To me it is kind of like the people on Facebook who don't take the time to Snopes.com a story before they throw it in everyones face.

Now I WAS told when I was hired in 2007 as an ADN, by a Magnet hospital, that I would be one of the last, however I never checked back in with HR to see if that was true.

Unfortunately the only thing we can control is our reaction to others. Remember interactions are often a result of the others persons perspective and experiences, and really has little to do with you as a person :)

solneeshka, BSN, RN · May 8, 2013

I was told the same thing when I was hired on as an ADN by my Magnet hospital 4 years ago (we're taking you, but you're one of the last). In my new grad class of about 60 (it's a big hospital), there were only two of us who were not BSNs. On the other hand, I have seen many experienced ADNs hired since I came on board. So who knows.

If I'm reading your post correctly, you are just griping about nurses being catty to you because you're an ADN, and if so, you have every right to gripe! I can tell you that exactly nothing changed about my nursing practice after I completed my bridge program. I love school, so that part was great, but it was just school. There were no clinicals, there weren't even any tests (lots of papers, though). It was heavy on the theory and light on the practice. In nursing, it's experience that counts. Some people will do whatever they can to try to make other people feel small, and I'm sorry you've had to put up with that! The facility appears to be happy with your work, and whether or not they end up offering you a position is none of anyone else's business.

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · May 8, 2013

Sounds like the OP is working as a traveler or agency. In my experience, most travelers are really top-notch, so there's no wonder that they love her!!! BUT (big BUT), travelers are contract workers, not employees so they don't count in the 80:20 RN ratio. Crackerjack nurses, especially those with specialty skills, will always be in high demand without regard to their educational credentials.

I hate the 'great divide' that tends to erupt anytime AD vs BS rears it's ugly head. But the fact is that there is a difference. Large scale studies in the US have provided clear evidence that acute care patient outcomes are significantly improved with higher levels of BSN staff. The 2020 recommendation actually originated with the IOM - based upon these findings. (google that)

TiffyRN, BSN, PhD · May 8, 2013

Obviously you didn't read anything I typed.
Again... my question is why say it unless you are a hiring manager or work in HR?

First of all, I took the time to read everything you wrote. Secondly, there are a lot of responses from non-HR and non-hiring managers because we of the general population simply out-number those folks (HR & hiring managers). Thirdly, we are constantly asked "why am I not getting hired?" Fourthly (is there such a word?), This is what we hear constantly from our higher ups.

My personal experience? When I was hired as an ADN in my current position I already had experience and have been there 10 years. What I have observed is that our hospital (specifically my NICU) continues to hire ADN nurses but many of these nurses tell us we were the only local hospital to offer them a position and they were told by hiring managers (in other hospitals) that those hospitals were not currently hiring non-BSNs. All these hospitals to which I refer including mine are magnet. Our hospital has also made all new-grad ADNs sign an agreement that they will return for their BSN within 5 years of hire. I don't know if they will enforce this or how though, it's a pretty new decision.

I am sorry you have been treated so poorly, it is not appropriate. I am an excellent experienced ADN nurse though I am in process of obtaining my BSN. I never make others feel their ADN is inferior. If they ask, I tell them why I am appreciating the education I am now getting.

Asking nurses about hiring manager decisions or HR dept decisions is like nurses postulating about TJC decisions. Sometimes we are wrong, but we are still going to continue to discuss and theorize right?

If you want to discuss the validity of concept of giving preference to BSNs then we have a multitude of other threads for this discussion. I appreciated your question as a slightly different one from the usual "Is your hospital hiring ADNs?"

Susie2310 · May 8, 2013

Sounds like the OP is working as a traveler or agency. In my experience, most travelers are really top-notch, so there's no wonder that they love her!!! BUT (big BUT), travelers are contract workers, not employees so they don't count in the 80:20 RN ratio. Crackerjack nurses, especially those with specialty skills, will always be in high demand without regard to their educational credentials.
I hate the 'great divide' that tends to erupt anytime AD vs BS rears it's ugly head. But the fact is that there is a difference. Large scale studies in the US have provided clear evidence that acute care patient outcomes are significantly improved with higher levels of BSN staff. The 2020 recommendation actually originated with the IOM - based upon these findings. (google that)

As far as I know, the "evidence" that acute care patient outcomes are significantly improved with higher levels of BSN staff is highly debatable. So debatable in fact, that a nurse posted on AN a while back that he/she was part of a panel for his/her state in regard to deciding whether a BSN should be required for entry in to practice: The panel reviewed one particular much quoted study and rejected the conclusions for reasons the nurse specified. I do not know of large scale quantitative studies that have demonstrated the superiority of patient outcomes for BSN prepared nurses over ADN prepared nurses. I do not consider subjective outcome measures such as self-reported patient satisfaction questionnaires as providing clear evidence of significantly improved patients outcomes for higher levels of BSN prepared nurses versus ADN prepared nurses. I am open to reading a study that clearly demonstrates quantitatively what you are asserting. I wish to mention that I have a BSN, obtained after completing my RN through an ADN program.

allnurses Guide · May 8, 2013

No I don't consider it because I live in the now.
These are already Magnet Hospitals, please read the topic. I have been asked to work at three Magnet hospitals. Three... because it isn't 2020. Two I have declined. Even though they are Magnet does not mean they are the best to work at. Actually terrible IMO. One I am considering, because I really like my contract here. Why have I been considered? I am not a Nobel Peace Prize winner or something. If someone is not a hiring manager or works in HR they should just zip it I guess. You just don't know, you just don't. So if you are a Staff Nurse stop telling people they can't work somewhere.
There are also other ASN that work there too as permanent staff or have been hired as ASN. While looking through job boards I noticed that some say you can have an ASN with experience, BSN preferred, etc. Pres is the only one that doesn't let you in online, but if you get in through travel, agency, or through someone you know it happens. Just saying... Or, even if you are in a program.
I am not telling people not to get their BSNs do it! Get your MSN even. I see this happening in the Magnets. But, gee wiz don't put others down because they haven't had the chance to. Me myself I have been stuck in Travel. I do find it mean and rude though. IMO

Most hospitals shooting for magnet status are hiring BSNs only, on in much higher numbers. They do this because they are preparing for the 80-20 ratio. If they hire BSNs as new hires that can keep their current ADNs and still increase their ratio over time. If they don't, come 2020, they may start clearing house to quickly make up the ratio. It's a business move: keep the current and experienced ADNs and hire new BSNs for the rest leading to a gradually increasing ratio.

It's not a 100% thing. If you are good, you could get a job. On aggregate, it is the trend.

allnurses Guide · May 8, 2013

As far as I know, the "evidence" that acute care patient outcomes are significantly improved with higher levels of BSN staff is highly debatable. So debatable in fact, that a nurse posted on AN a while back that he/she was part of a panel for his/her state in regard to deciding whether a BSN should be required for entry in to practice; the panel reviewed one particular much quoted study and rejected the conclusions for reasons the nurse specified. I do not know of large scale quantitative studies that have demonstrated the superiority of patient outcomes for BSN prepared nurses over ADN prepared nurses. I do not consider subjective outcome measures such as self-reported patient satisfaction questionnaires as providing clear evidence of significantly improved patients outcomes for higher levels of BSN prepared nurses versus ADN prepared nurses. I am open to reading a study that clearly demonstrates quantitatively what you are asserting.

As discussed in many other threads, you can keep arguing against every study that's been published, but until you have any evidence that supports your position, it's grasping at straws.