Why do nurses constantly say they don't hire ASN?

Susie2310 · May 8, 2013

As discussed in many other threads, you can keep arguing against every study that's been published, but until you have any evidence that supports your position, it's grasping at straws.

Other people besides myself have refuted the evidence you have put forward.

allnurses Guide · May 8, 2013

Other people besides myself have told you the evidence is not there.

Show me a single study that supports your point.

I will even go first. Here is yet another study from two months ago:

Blegen, M. A., Goode, C. J., Park, S. H., Vaughn, T., & Spetz, J. (2013). Baccalaureate Education in Nursing and Patient Outcomes. Journal of Nursing Administration, 43(2), 89-94.

Don't get me wrong, every study has flaws. But for me, in order to make a statement that a study is invalid, you should have some support for your position.

Either way, hospital hiring practices are (sadly) not based just on research. They are based on making money.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 8, 2013

OK this is funny because every Magnet hospital I go to someone who doesn't work in HR or is NOT a hiring Manager just has to say they don't hire Associate Degree nurses. I have been asked to be hired at some other Magnet hospitals. Reasons like this, bullying, bad staffing, etc. have made me just complete my assignment and go to the next one. I started liking working where I am now, at a Magnet hospital, probably one of the ones who started the trend. It came up as a discussion because my contract was extended after only two weeks of starting. Then a couple of nurses who were overhearing the conversation said I would never get hired due to my lame degree status. Le sigh... Some of the ASNs themselves. Just for the record. I am a 8 year experienced ASN with great references so it isn't like I am new at this kind of thing.
It just doesn't happen there, I have seen nurses do it on here to others. It is harder to get in I guess, but when you have experience it isn't so hard. At least for me. I am not sure about a New Grads, but hey what do I know. Maybe in the universe there is a New Grad ASN out there who did get hired with persistence at these Magnet hospitals! Especially, if they are enrolled or attending a BSN program.
Listen unless if you are not a hiring person don't say this. Why? I just don't understand it. Does it make you feel better? If someone has an Associate's Degree gets hire in a Magnet hospital, is willing to upgrade their education status, what they heck is it to you?
Just a rant I guess. Hopefully, this will be the last stop so I can continue on with my education. But, I won't ever be like, "They don't hire your kind here."

*** Lots of Magnet hospital do hire ADN RN grads. Even more hire experienced nurses with ADNs, especialy in harder to fill units like ICU. One Magnet hospital where I work part time ONLY hires ADN grads into it's critical care nurses residency program for SICU, BSN grads and direct entry grads not considered for hire (though experienced ICU RNs with BSNs are hired and BSN new grads are hired for the residency for other units). I am an instructor in this program.

Anyway as far as I am concerned the whole question is moot. Why all the discussion about who Magnet hospitals do and don't hire? Who wants to work at a Magnet hospital? (shudder) I consider them employers of last resort.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 8, 2013

Show me a single study that supports your point.
I will even go first. Here is yet another study from two months ago:
Blegen, M. A., Goode, C. J., Park, S. H., Vaughn, T., & Spetz, J. (2013). Baccalaureate Education in Nursing and Patient Outcomes. Journal of Nursing Administration, 43(2), 89-94.
Don't get me wrong, every study has flaws. But for me, in order to make a statement that a study is invalid, you should have some support for your position.
Either way, hospital hiring practices are (sadly) not based just on research. They are based on making money.

*** I can't read the study from home. But it baffels me how there could be ANY difference. After all every ADN RN is only 12-24 months away from being a BSN RN. What I would really love to see is a unbiased study that compairs patient outcomes when care is provided by RN who went to a traditional four year BSN program vs RN who went to a two year ADN program, and then did RN to BSN in the first two years after licensure. Both groups would have invested 4 years in their BSN and both would be RN but the second group would have 2 more years of bedside experience under their belt.

Maybe there would be a difference but I would have to see such a study to believe it. I have always though requiring a BSN for RNs is a great idea, but also opposed to BSN for entry to practice. Many of the ADN programs in my area have arrangment with universities where ADN students are co-enrolled in the community college ADN program and the university's BSN. After two years they graduate with their ADNs and take the NCLEX and (hopefully) get jobs, meanwhile they continue taking classes at the university for another 3 to 4 semesters until they earn thier BSN.

I honestly believe much of the "BSN as entry to RN practice" crowd are motivated by jelously. The advantages of ADN then RN to BSN over traditional university BSN are obvious and overwhelming.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 8, 2013

A few years ago we had a case where our MICU hired a new 20 year old ADN grad into the residency program. She did very well and progressed through the residency and became a competent and respected MICU staff RN, even doing charge twords the end of her second year and serving as phase II preceptor for nurse resident (phase II is mostly an introduction to the unit, where stuff is kept, how to use the physician on call system, etc. Phase I is on tele units and phase III is with much more experienced ICU RNs serving as preceptors). Meanwhile she continued her education and graduated with her BSN after a couple years at very little cost to her using the hospital's tution assistance program. That year another new grad was hired, a fresh BSN from State university and a good friend since high school of the first nurse. Both graduated from high school together with plans to be RNs. Four years later both are RN, BSN but one is precepting the other.

I didn't actually know these nurses but they were talked about at the time.

mshessle · May 8, 2013

Over half of my ADN graduating class were hired at a magnet hospital. A lot of them even were hired into very competitive residency programs in the trauma-icu and ED.

allnurses Guide · May 8, 2013

*** I can't read the study from home. But it baffels me how there could be ANY difference. After all every ADN RN is only 12-24 months away from being a BSN RN. What I would really love to see is a unbiased study that compairs patient outcomes when care is provided by RN who went to a traditional four year BSN program vs RN who went to a two year ADN program, and then did RN to BSN in the first two years after licensure. Both groups would have invested 4 years in their BSN and both would be RN but the second group would have 2 more years of bedside experience under their belt.
Maybe there would be a difference but I would have to see such a study to believe it. I have always though requiring a BSN for RNs is a great idea, but also opposed to BSN for entry to practice. Many of the ADN programs in my area have arrangment with universities where ADN students are co-enrolled in the community college ADN program and the university's BSN. After two years they graduate with their ADNs and take the NCLEX and (hopefully) get jobs, meanwhile they continue taking classes at the university for another 3 to 4 semesters until they earn thier BSN.
I honestly believe much of the "BSN as entry to RN practice" crowd are motivated by jelously. The advantages of ADN then RN to BSN over traditional university BSN are obvious and overwhelming.

I absolutely agree about the idea for a study; most of the major studies have been flawed in that way. I have published in the past on nontraditional grad programs, so this would be very interesting for me. If I had more time I might consider trying to put it together, maybe this summer..

My biggest problem with the stepwise education pathway is the question of who it is better for: the students, the nurses, the hospital, or the patients. As it looks from the current research, it seems to be great for the students but (in aggregate) not as good for other nurses, the hospital, or the patients.

HeatherMax · May 8, 2013

I am just starting out, and when I ask the question of who get's the jobs (to friends, family that are nurses), everyone says BSN's. But then I ask more nurses and hear ASN's and RN's... so I decided to just email all of the local hospital nurse recruiters. The answers were the same. The preferred, is a BSN, BUT they do hire ASN's and RN's WITH "valuable experience" . They do not currently hire new grad ASN's and RN's.

TiffyRN, BSN, PhD · May 8, 2013

local hospital nurse recruiters. . .do hire ASN's and RN's WITH "valuable experience" . They do not currently hire new grad ASN's and RN's.

Well, I sure hope you're not out there spreading these vicious rumors as you yourself are not a nurse recruiter!!

Just trying to get back to the OP's original issue and not get tangled in the ADN vs. BSN debate again. . .

ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP · May 8, 2013

Given the choice and with everything else even, employers will take the BSN over the ADN. It is a sad fact but true.

klone, MSN, RN · May 8, 2013

To answer the OP, because in the case of my hospital, they don't. They did when I first started about two years ago - at that time they would hire experienced ADNs, but only BSN new grads. About a year ago, they changed it so that it's ALL BSN for new hires. Their percentage of BSN (or higher) prepared nurses currently on staff is 87%. As far as I know, they're not requiring any current ASN employees to get their BSNs, but I foresee that changing as well.

Or maybe not, if the required ratio is 80:20. As long as they only hire BSNs, their rates will increase through attrition.

(they are 2x Magnet)

Susie2310 · May 8, 2013

I absolutely agree about the idea for a study; most of the major studies have been flawed in that way. I have published in the past on nontraditional grad programs, so this would be very interesting for me. If I had more time I might consider trying to put it together, maybe this summer..
My biggest problem with the stepwise education pathway is the question of who it is better for: the students, the nurses, the hospital, or the patients. As it looks from the current research, it seems to be great for the students but (in aggregate) not as good for other nurses, the hospital, or the patients.

So you are saying most of the major studies are flawed. In previous discussions with you about these kinds of studies I have referred to study design and limitations, but you have continued to ask me to provide a study to support my position. A study supporting my perspective on limitations of previous research is hardly necessary.