We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

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What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

Specializes in Psychiatry.
11 hours ago, ajdizzle43 said:

I apologize for the rambling, however, could veterans in the nursing field kindly explain what the "problem" is with too many "highly educated" nurses filling the market? Everyone enrolled at the NP schools in question are educated RN's, and required to pass mandated licensing boards to become NP's; therefore, is the NP licensing operation too "easy" for the level of education RN's are capable of? Forgive me, but is this not what the nursing practice wanted? Highly educated nurses (RN, BSN required, ect?) with advanced level degrees?

 

Sure, the concern is that those schools we are speaking about (the diploma mills such as Walden) do not really produce "highly educated" nurses filling the market. They have no admissions standards and thus admit many students who do not have the intellectual capacity to be a healthcare provider, and they certainly don't seem to provide the educational product required to turn such a student into a highly capable provider. It's worrying for the profession and for patients. The for profit programs are in this solely to make a profit, at the expense of everyone else including their students and our profession as a whole. They are using our profession for their bottom line and the nursing boards are letting it happen.

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On 2/5/2021 at 11:05 PM, cprimavera said:

Good question and I will just put my opinion here. When you search "nurse practitioner" on Google, all these programs that advertise "you can become a practitioner within xx months! Apply now! No GRE required!" probably fall into that category. Also, I personally feel that all the programs that allow you to work aren't rigorous enough. Have you seen a medical student who works for a part-time? Have you seen a CRNA student who works for a part time? Of course, there may be one or two but working during professional school is usually unimaginable and unlikely. On the other hand, there are so many NP students who work part-time, or even full-time.

I was once in the substandard NP Program and I was able to work full time while getting A's in all of my exams. Honestly, I never studied enough to get an A but it was so easy since everything was online. Now, I am in one of the most rigorous programs in the nation and I am UNABLE to work. Why? the courses are more rigorous in every single way (I can explain about this more in detail...). I am so sorry if going back to school without continuous income sounds too harsh to some nurses, but this should be the way if you truly want to become a good provider. There is no professional school that allows so much of free time (even enough for you to work full time), except for those NP diploma mills. No physician, pharmDs, dentists, optometrists, vets, or CRNAs had such leeways during their school.

There will be NPs who claim that they are STILL amazing providers even after they graduated from whatever program and they are 100% competent in carrying tasks out. But we are providers, not just technicians. NPs should be the leaders in nursing and healthcare, not just those nurses who take care of tasks that were unwanted by physicians. The only way to make our voice heard and meaningful is through raising the education standard high for NPs and keep the bar high to enter. Eventually, when we gain more respect and reputation as providers, I am sure that there will be more scholarships and loan programs for nurses to complete programs without working at the same time. 

Great points. Just out of curiosity what school did you originally go to that was so easy you were able to work full time? I haven’t heard of any school like that but I’m still researching. Thanks 

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
On 5/16/2021 at 3:04 PM, londonflo said:

Remediation courses really do work wonders.. I have known many students who benefitted from them and went on to achieve nursing degrees. (Since the student has already been enrolled with taxpayer support for grades 1 - 12 our state does charge for these  'year 13" high school courses. Paying for something sometimes hits home that this is a required learning responsibility.)

 

10 years ago, our community college received a great grant for 20 students to receive free tuition, scheduled clinical days on Sat/Sun, lecture on Monday evening, with the same curriculum for our other students. The schedule was created so that they could work M-F or be with their children or both. 

The students had to meet the same entry requirements.... How many of the 20  graduated? 5

 

How did the school handle it?  Weekend school for a nursing program for working adults sounds like a set up for failure.  As if nursing were so trivial that this could actually be done!  Did they drop this idea or does it live on with high failure rates at taxpayers' expense?

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Specializes in Public Health.
On 2/3/2021 at 11:40 PM, TheMoonisMyLantern said:

I think one of the big things that needs to change is making students arrange their own clinical experiences. For one, with the amount of money these programs are making there's no reason they can't form connections and establish preceptors for student. For two, I would think letting students find their own preceptor and clinical experience could cause a wide variation in the clinical education the student receives. I could be wrong, obviously I'm not an NP so my judgement is based off of what I've read and heard from others who have become NP's.

Completely agree.  I’ve seen too many NPs choose friends to be their preceptors. 
 

I think a one year internship or residency should be required for entry to practice.

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Specializes in Home Health.
On 2/3/2021 at 4:49 PM, amoLucia said:

Good luck there.

As long as there's money to be made, you'll face an uphill battle.

We managed to take actions against ITT Tech and The Art Institute, and even University of Phoenix was dropped by some entities. 

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Specializes in MSN, FNP-BC.
On 2/8/2021 at 12:06 PM, PsychNurse24 said:

It is not a huge problem. I’m sorry but you all sound like a bunch of snobs!!  All of the universities, whether ion line or brick and mortar Or whether they have tough entry requirements or not, meet accreditation standards. And all the people who graduate from them have to pass the board certification. 

I found the ANCC exam too easy. I thought it was going to be difficult because I read horror stories of people failing 2-3x. With proper prep, it was a breeze.

As far as the NP curriculum, I would not recommend any purely online program. I understand people have lives and it would be difficult for them if they had to attend Campus Learning and Skills Intensive (CLASI) and Objective Structured Clinical Examinations (OSCE). However, it's an important part of NP education. The professors must be able to properly evaluate your clinical skills and if needed, recommend remedial assistance and retest at a future date.

Going back to board certification. I would make it a 2-day process. Day 1 would be the online exam. Day 2 would be clinical evaluation. You would have to rotate through different scenarios and present patient care plans to the proctors; defend it, etc. That would certainly weed out those who are not prepared to practice as a provider.

I am proud of our profession and want to elevate it.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
On 10/14/2021 at 6:47 PM, LittleTwinStars said:

We managed to take actions against ITT Tech and The Art Institute, and even University of Phoenix was dropped by some entities. 

There's plenty of bad players left in the game.  It always stuns me how our own profession tolerates sucy low educational standards for people in advanced practice.  

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Specializes in oncology.
On 5/24/2021 at 8:58 PM, ghyt said:

. Just out of curiosity what school did you originally go to that was so easy you were able to work full time?

Do you want to attend or avoid the above mentioned school?

I retired 2 years ago but 75% of our entry nursing students said they wanted to become nurse practitioners as soon as possible It was scary. Their ability to problem solve was limited, their ability to discriminate between normal vs. abnormal was nil. 

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Specializes in Dialysis.
3 hours ago, londonflo said:

Do you want to attend or avoid the above mentioned school?

I retired 2 years ago but 75% of our entry nursing students said they wanted to become nurse practitioners as soon as possible It was scary. Their ability to problem solve was limited, their ability to discriminate between normal vs. abnormal was nil. 

2 years later, it's no better

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Specializes in Critical Care.

I can remember a long time ago when it was prestigious to be an NP. Now, not as much. The diploma mills and "fast tracks" are contributing to this drop in prestige. When you see numerous advertisements.."Get your DNP or NP or whatever in as little as 18 months (or sooner), it degrades the DNP and makes it look inferior.  A PhD in nursing is more widely respected and recognized, including international circles because it requires more hours and original research. When I say I am considering getting a DNP, people say "huh"?  When I say I am also considering getting a PhD they are much more impressed and say "Oh a PhD sounds challenging and long."

Regardless of what nursing circles say, the general public thinks the PhD is the "terminal degree" not a DNP.  The DNP needs to be more standardized. It is so confusing to the public. The thing that brings DNP down (IMO) are the fast track diploma mills and the fact that anyone can get this degree, not just nurse practioners. If the NP-DNPs want to get the respect and recognition they deserve, they need to lobby for the DNP degree to require as many hours and take as long as the PhD, and the DNP needs more hard sciences (e.g. Organic Chemistry, etc. like MDs have). Also, the DNP should not be awarded in fast track diploma mills and to non-NPs.  Another thing that would help the DNP-NPs are required 2-3 year long internships and residencies like the MDs and DOs have. Even the LPCs (counselors) have to do 2 or 3 year long internships before they can practice. 

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.

As a preceptor for AGACNP students, I don't even know how to distinguish diploma mill from schools that are not. I have precepted students from well known programs enrolled in their distance option and a few are just not quite ready for the NP role. However, have not had a student from our local and affiliated AGACNP program (that is in-person) disappointe me yet.

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Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
Corey Narry said:

As a preceptor for AGACNP students, I don't even know how to distinguish diploma mill from schools that are not. I have precepted students from well known programs enrolled in their distance option and a few are just not quite ready for the NP role. 

If they are students, then of course they are not yet ready to be an NP!  That is the definition of a student!  Your job as a preceptor is to help them get ready.  If they knew everything, then they wouldn't need a preceptor!

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