We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

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What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

Specializes in oncology.
RNandPen said:

Among these outcomes is the analysis and dissemination of certification pass rate and job placement rate data. An 80% minimum pass rate as it stands for the previous one year or as a mean over the preceding three years meets qualifications. 

Just so I get this right by your calculations..( hypothetical  stats) for the gathering of data for a fictitious program for 3 years of graduates:

79% 

79% 

82% 

I call this dismal. No wonder they do not publicly post these rates. Over the 3 years of data - 47% have not achieved the minimal score on their NP certification exam on their first attempt at a minimal qualification standardized exam granting entry practice as an NP and they will still have to pay off loans.. 

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Specializes in Trauma hospital/Acute Care/Ambulatory.

Can these graduates find a job after graduating from these notorious schools ? The market is more of a supply and demand thing rather than the quality control, isn't it?

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QqGgKk said:

Can these graduates find a job after graduating from these notorious schools ? The market is more of a supply and demand thing rather than the quality control, isn't it?

Many do. But many struggle to pass boards or even finish at these schools. There is an understanding that these for profits operate on the likelihood many won't make it through it will not b made it through in a timely manner. They take in thousands of students a year. They don't support them in things like clinicals. And when their bare minimum curriculum fails to prep them for boards, they still say "we still game you a degree". 

But even for thousands of failures, there's still a percentage of people who got a subpar education who happened to pass boards (still a poor measure of ability), who likely got a subpar clinical experience because the schools only care that you showed up somewhere. They have poor clinic vetting practices and don't have rigorous standards.

 It's current NPs who need to hold the line on schools we're willing to entertain when interviewing. You can be the best NP from your school, but if you came from one of those schools you won't get an interview with any clinic I have the capacity to influence because I refuse to let those schools or anyone stupid enough to entertain that option a margin of opportunity.  

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Specializes in Psychiatric, in school for PMHNP..

Wow, your arrogance is astounding!  To make a blanket statement that anyone who goes to the universities that YOU deem inferior is stupid is just one example of your superior attitude.  Narcissistic personality disorder is my dx for you.  You need to learn humility.  And for those who are wondering, yes, I did graduate from Walden University, as did my daughter. We both passed our boards on the first attempt, and we both have wonderful jobs where we perform well, per our Psychiatrist managers.  If you're considering Walden, or others that some consider "diploma mills", please don't let these judgmental folks convince you not to go!  I'm still waiting to see real research and real evidence, not just a few people's anecdotal stories. P.S., as many people know, those who have personality disorders rarely recognize that they do!

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Specializes in Psychiatry.
PsychNurse24 said:

Wow, your arrogance is astounding!  To make a blanket statement that anyone who goes to the universities that YOU deem inferior is stupid is just one example of your superior attitude.  Narcissistic personality disorder is my dx for you.  You need to learn humility.  And for those who are wondering, yes, I did graduate from Walden University, as did my daughter. We both passed our boards on the first attempt, and we both have wonderful jobs where we perform well, per our Psychiatrist managers.  If you're considering Walden, or others that some consider "diploma mills", please don't let these judgmental folks convince you not to go!  I'm still waiting to see real research and real evidence, not just a few people's anecdotal stories. P.S., as many people know, those who have personality disorders rarely recognize that they do!

You're diagnosing a personality disorder based on a single statement that poster made about improving NP education quality? Definitely sounds like a Walden graduate's level of skill.

 

I am sorry the truth hurts your feelings but maybe you shouldn't have gone to the easiest school you could find? Walden accepts anyone with a pulse. Have you ever heard of people from Harvard or Yale or Stanford cold calling people and begging them to apply or putting up ads requesting applications? Walden turns no one away because they're a business and they want money. That's it. You chose a school that has constant start dates and sues pre-packaged modules and barely oversees clinicals and you got the education we expected. What you hear on the board is a fraction of what people say about Walden graduates in the real world. It's a running joke among people. I just had a laugh with a physician colleague a few weeks ago when he said he wished he could hire another NP and when the nurse in the office was going back to school and commented "you could always get one of those overnight Walden degrees but then I probably wouldn't hire you anyway.” 

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PsychNurse24 said:

Wow, your arrogance is astounding!  To make a blanket statement that anyone who goes to the universities that YOU deem inferior is stupid is just one example of your superior attitude.  Narcissistic personality disorder is my dx for you.  You need to learn humility.  And for those who are wondering, yes, I did graduate from Walden University, as did my daughter. We both passed our boards on the first attempt, and we both have wonderful jobs where we perform well, per our Psychiatrist managers.  If you're considering Walden, or others that some consider "diploma mills", please don't let these judgmental folks convince you not to go!  I'm still waiting to see real research and real evidence, not just a few people's anecdotal stories. P.S., as many people know, those who have personality disorders rarely recognize that they do!

Let's try arguing my points rather than throwing around diagnoses you aren't prepared to make. (BTW this is actually against forum rules, but since you have the reactionary maturity of a child I won't opt for moderation). 

1. They don't  publish their stats like other reputable schools do. 
2. They don't adequately vet their clinical rotations. 
3. They provide minimal support in placing clinical rotations (a standard that even their accreditation body is mandating). 

4. They don't properly ensure their students are checked off in ability physically on sight before that student begins clinical rotations. 
5.  They take on thousands of applications knowing that many won't make it through or ultimately will be saddled with far more debt than other schools. 
6. Their practices prey on a range of ethnic and social classes dragging them into debt with grandiose promises of what they could be without giving them the real expectations of graduation. 

These are facts and observations I and many have concluded about our many interactions with this school and their students for close to a decade. They raise suspicion of the schools ability and by proxy anyone who chooses to go there. 
 

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All I can say is ridiculous! To think that an actual school or university makes the provider is absurd! 
 

I certainly hope that who ever thinks this and displays this view, along with the continued debate and adversity towards others on this post , is not an actual provider in healthcare . 

all I can say is crazy 🤪 

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Specializes in Psychiatry.

Yeah it does though. It's called an education. Don't be an anti-intellectual it's embarrassing 

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I cannot understand why you are so bitter. Did one of these providers come in and overtake your job and overachieve past your abilities?  

it is not the school these providers attend, but their past experience and individual abilities . 

I will not entertain further a crazy 🤪 person.  End of discussion!

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RN/WI said:

I cannot understand why you are so bitter. Did one of these providers come in and overtake your job and overachieve past your abilities?  

it is not the school these providers attend, but their past experience and individual abilities . 

I will not entertain further a crazy 🤪 person.  End of discussion!

For a select few that is the case. But problem is these schools churn out crap on the regular.  Many hiring organizations have caught on and won't entertain the idea of hiring them.  These schools also entrap many into student loans they may never get a degree for because they are unable to work and keep up with the education.  If we don't openly talk about these issues, more students make that poor choice. 

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Specializes in Psychiatry.
RN/WI said:

I cannot understand why you are so bitter. Did one of these providers come in and overtake your job and overachieve past your abilities?  

it is not the school these providers attend, but their past experience and individual abilities . 

I will not entertain further a crazy 🤪 person.  End of discussion!

Why is it so hard for someone you to understand that these school are an embarrassment to all of us? Those of us who want our profession to live a long life, to  be able to argue to state governments and skeptical patients that we can take care of their healthcare needs equal to a physician, want to make sure we can back up those claims. We have encountered far too many of these barely literate JOKES who went to these schools with ZERO standards who clicked through some discussion posts and became medical providers and it's terrifying. The truth is, I cannot look at a patient and say "All NPs are equal to physicians" now that these Walden grads exist. I tell them - look at where they went to school. Every time I encounter an idiotic medication order, or major error, or missed diagnosis from an NP, they went to a diploma mill. Those schools simply don't have to standards. And I am sorry that you don't understand that someone's BEDSIDE RN experience is not what makes them a capable provider. That is not where they learn complex pathophysiology and prescription management and biochemistry. That should come from graduate school, and for the diploma mill grads it is clearly not.

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