We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

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What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

Specializes in Psychiatry.

I precepted a student from a for-profit program in her final semester and she was so underprepared and unintelligent it was terrifying. The questions she asked were things even an RN should know. She was just not smart enough to be a medical provider and it's a shame she was let into any program. Do we think everyone on earth is capable of being an MD? Of course not, so why do we lower than standard for NPs?

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Specializes in MSN, FNP-BC.
MentalKlarity said:

I precepted a student from a for-profit program in her final semester and she was so underprepared and unintelligent it was terrifying. The questions she asked were things even an RN should know. She was just not smart enough to be a medical provider and it's a shame she was let into any program. Do we think everyone on earth is capable of being an MD? Of course not, so why do we lower than standard for NPs?

Scary. Crossing fingers the board exam will be too high of a hurdle and stop her from practicing as a provider. But then again, it was easy, so she may pass😱

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Specializes in MSN, FNP-BC.
Corey Narry said:

I have precepted students from well known programs enrolled in their distance option and a few are just not quite ready for the NP role. However, have not had a student from our local and affiliated AGACNP program (that is in-person) disappointe me yet.

I would highly encourage those who don't seem quite ready to do a residency. I did one through Veterans Affairs and felt so much more prepared to practice. But if there isn't one local to them, they'd have to move. 

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Specializes in Health Writing, Critical Care & Advanced Practice.
Quote

The market is just becoming saturated

Labor projections speak to the contrary, as the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates NP employment to increase by 45% by 2032. Logic dictates there is no better time to advance RN practice. Although, the argument here seems to rest with the legitimacy of the termed "diploma mill" programs. The Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (CCNE) or the Accreditation Commission for Education in Nursing (ACEN) are charged with NP school accreditation. These bodies apply rigorous standards to programs' BON approval, mission, curriculum, educational setting, and resources regardless of how content delivery takes form. Identical standards maintain the integrity of both virtual and vis-a-vis content. In my opinion, there's no shame in capitalizing on the convenience of an accredited online program, especially when unemployment is not a realistic option. 

I completed a part-time hybrid DNP program at a Tier 1 research institution in which a significant proportion of learning was self-propelled study of a robust curriculum. I felt well prepared for boards and field practice. Let's leave competency as a measure of school accreditation, advanced practice endorsement, and (of course) role performance. The method of content delivery in school is trivial. It's time to encourage responsible advanced practice in our field to meet the growing demand for providers! 😉

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As evidenced by the quality produced by the Walden's et al, it's clear those accrediting institutions aren't as rigorous as you purport. Even ACEN recently enacted a requirement for providing preceptors. None of the for profits are hitting that metric from the number of people I still see begging for a preceptor for those schools.  

Quality has a range of metrics. Percentage of graduates to totals accepted.  First time pass rate on boards. And even observed performance compared to peers at similar level. The first two, the for profits won't even report because they know their numbers are abysmal. 

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Specializes in Psychiatry.
RNandPen said:

Labor projections speak to the contrary, as the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates NP employment to increase by 45% by 2032. Logic dictates there is no better time to advance RN practice. Although, the argument here seems to rest with the legitimacy of the termed "diploma mill" programs. The Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (CCNE) or the Accreditation Commission for Education in Nursing (ACEN) are charged with NP school accreditation. These bodies apply rigorous standards to programs' BON approval, mission, curriculum, educational setting, and resources regardless of how content delivery takes form. Identical standards maintain the integrity of both virtual and vis-a-vis content. In my opinion, there's no shame in capitalizing on the convenience of an accredited online program, especially when unemployment is not a realistic option. 

I completed a part-time hybrid DNP program at a Tier 1 research institution in which a significant proportion of learning was self-propelled study of a robust curriculum. I felt well prepared for boards and field practice. Let's leave competency as a measure of school accreditation, advanced practice endorsement, and (of course) role performance. The method of content delivery in school is trivial. It's time to encourage responsible advanced practice in our field to meet the growing demand for providers! 😉

I think it's sad when people just assume an agency is going to do what's best for people and not what is financially best for themselves. They want the dues and test fees of all these NPs so they are okay with the diploma mills. It's that simple. The accreditation is not "rigorous" at all. Compare the average PA graduate to NP graduates - have you ever met graduates of PA programs, veterinary programs, pharmacy programs, MD programs, PT programs, or ANY other graduate medical program that is as ignorant as some NP graduates are? The quality control in literally in the gutter here.

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Specializes in oncology.
RNandPen said:

These bodies apply rigorous standards to programs' BON approval, mission, curriculum, educational setting, and resources regardless of how content delivery takes form.

  1. BON approval is overseen by a political body in each state. 
  2. I don't see where you cited the admission requirements, board passing rates (based on the minimum passing rate) for several years and graduation rates as being evaluated by their accrediting body or even the BON....extremely important information!
  3. As I have said before, while I respect the ACEN process, I could run a BSN program in my basement  and CCNE would approve it. 
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Specializes in Health Writing, Critical Care & Advanced Practice.
londonflo said:
  1. BON approval is overseen by a political body in each state. 
  2. I don't see where you cited the admission requirements, board passing rates (based on the minimum passing rate) for several years and graduation rates as being evaluated by their accrediting body or even the BON....extremely important information!
  3. As I have said before, while I respect the ACEN process, I could run a BSN program in my basement  and CCNE would approve it. 

State Board of Nursing program approval is among the accreditation criteria ACEN puts forth. Additional criteria as you have listed falls under the umbrella of Outcomes ACEN includes in their Standards and Criteria. Among these outcomes is the analysis and dissemination of certification pass rate and job placement rate data. An 80% minimum pass rate as it stands for the previous one year or as a mean over the preceding three years meets qualifications. 

In the good name of citation, ACEN criteria can be recovered at: https://resources.acenursing.org/space/SAC/1825964307/STANDARD+5+-+Outcomes

CCNE accreditation criteria can be found here: https://www.aacnnursing.org/Portals/0/PDFs/CCNE/Standards-Final-2018.pdf

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Specializes in oncology.

 

I know both bodies of criteria. I know what each body cites. But what they cite is not required above the ADN/BSN level to be published on the internet, program brochures and applications. .

 I was not asking for the general program criteria that is intimate to the program when the accreditors visit. (yep I have been there where things not published are identified) (with a promise to improve)  and then the accreditors walk out the door and we are left in the  same cesspool that existed before they came.  I am asking for PUBLISHED statistics required by the accrediting bodies, available to all who view the program trying to actually see what the "get my license in hand"  graduate successful outcomes were.  

  • I want REAL numbers published by truly  interested students with state of art library articles  (from a physical library)
  • and a demand for students to really be responsible, based on proven nursing knowledge
  • and  complete a thesis that is substantiated by 'honest to science' well thought out studies that will add to our nursing knowledge base. 
  • I have been in the audience for some DNP projects that were carried out in the name of advancing nursing. ( Identifying medication errors ----- Check a name band, write up medication errors (describing why the error occurred, sending out surveys with a low return percent -- that wasn't generalizable but what the heck it was to the "researcher"  ) She found solutions - make sure students check name bands, know the normal dose, consult pharmacy. 
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At the end of the day, the quality of the for profit schools is demonstrably poor and the fact that they exist only suggests their accrediting bodies are either poor in their standards or complicit in pushing out crap NP education. They also know if they shut down the Walden's and Phoenix's, a lot of NP licenses will be at risk or in limbo. 

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Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
djmatte said:

At the end of the day, the quality of the for profit schools is demonstrably poor and the fact that they exist only suggests their accrediting bodies are either poor in their standards or complicit in pushing out crap NP education. They also know if they shut down the Walden's and Phoenix's, a lot of NP licenses will be at risk or in limbo. 

Personally, I think the real issue with the for-profit schools is the lack of admissions standards.  They will pretty much accept anyone with a pulse.  So they get a lot of crap students who then become crap providers.

There are also some good students that go to a for-profit for the convenience and they end up being decent providers.

Sorry, but becoming a provider is not a right, it is a privilege.  Schools must have reasonable admissions standards.

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Specializes in oncology.
RNandPen said:

Among these outcomes is the analysis and dissemination of certification pass rate and job placement rate data. An 80% minimum pass rate as it stands for the previous one year or as a mean over the preceding three years meets qualifications. 

Then require all schools to publish these,  online in a reasonable place that perspective students can find them --EASILY 

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