Vaccination Mandating

allnurses Guide · Nov 9, 2021

On 10/31/2021 at 7:12 PM, Sciencedude1 said:

Also, since we are mandating these vaccines, what are we going to do with the individuals that develop injuries as a result and are not able to work? I am not aware of any kind of financial support for individuals who have been injured by vaccines that have been mandated.

If only there was a self-funded, no-fault system to resolve vaccine injury petitions that did not require a petitioner to hire a lawyer and go though a lengthy traditional legal battle to get compensation. That would be totally amazing right?

How are you not aware of this? Have you even given a vaccination?

If you want employers held financially responsible for mandating vaccination then I would assume you'd also support holding unvaccinated individuals financially responsible for vectoring the virus: lost wages of those exposed, healthcare costs of testing and treatment for those exposed, lost productivity for the employer, etc.

PMFB-RN, RN · Nov 9, 2021

On 10/31/2021 at 6:12 PM, Sciencedude1 said:

Also, since we are mandating these vaccines, what are we going to do with the individuals that develop injuries as a result and are not able to work? I am not aware of any kind of financial support for individuals who have been injured by vaccines that have been mandated.

There is just such a system in place obviously. I want to know who is going to compensate employers if their unvaxxed employee is unable to work due to being in the ICU with COVID?

Many of those are public employees, think county, state and federal hospitals. Why should we as tax payers have to cover the cost of very highly paid travel nurses to cover for (let's say) VA nurses who refuse to get vaccinated?

Yes I know the VA has vaccine mandates, but trying to make a point.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Nov 9, 2021

10 minutes ago, PMFB-RN said:

There is just such a system in place obviously. I want to know who is going to compensate employers if their unvaxxed employee is unable to work due to being in the ICU with COVID?

Many of those are public employees, think county, state and federal hospitals. Why should we as tax payers have to cover the cost of very highly paid travel nurses to cover for (let's say) VA nurses who refuse to get vaccinated?

Yes I know the VA has vaccine mandates, but trying to make a point.

Wow. Someone is worried about the cost of the side effects of the vaccine? Those are rare and usually trivial. You are right that hiring travelers, paying sick costs for people who have to quarentine are the biggest costs - probably larger than paying hospital costs for hospitalizations. We are getting better at treating people at home and most working people are below the age group for hospitalizations. Mandate away, IMHO, since this is America and people can leave an employer at any time.

PMFB-RN, RN · Nov 9, 2021

57 minutes ago, subee said:

Wow. Someone is worried about the cost of the side effects of the vaccine? Those are rare and usually trivial.

Really? Who?

toomuchbaloney · Nov 9, 2021

12 minutes ago, PMFB-RN said:

Really? Who?

@Sciencedude1 is "concerned" about it...

subee, MSN, CRNA · Nov 9, 2021

1 hour ago, PMFB-RN said:

Really? Who?

Sorry PMFB. I was just agreeing with your post and adding a few more ways not mandating would cost us:)

Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN · Nov 10, 2021

On 11/9/2021 at 7:17 AM, BostonFNP said:

If only there was a self-funded, no-fault system to resolve vaccine injury petitions that did not require a petitioner to hire a lawyer and go though a lengthy traditional legal battle to get compensatIon.

There is such a thing, of course. I have colleagues who work vaccine cases regularly as life care planners. The Federal vaccine injury legislation has been around for years. Funded by manufacturers IIRC, set up to provide for any damages caused by vaccines of any kind. By law, the life care planners from plaintiff and defense work collaboratively to determine future needs in a plan that both sides must approve. It’s such a great model, we all wish that all our litigated cases worked that way.

Sciencedude1, BSN, RN · Nov 14, 2021

On 11/1/2021 at 9:50 AM, subee said:

You call yourself "Sciencedude" and yet post You Tube videos as evidence? Are you kidding me? Post vaccine myocarditis is associated with the puberty hormones in males and is largely self-limited. These kids aren't losing jobs. The myocarditis from Covid is a different animal. No one is tied down to take a vaccine without giving consent. Try tying down a teenage boy and see if that's possible. No vaccines are given without consent. If this is your idea of science, you must be a ghost from the 10th century or possible a paid bad influencer.....you know, like the people on You Tube. I know that reading is hard but give it a try. There's a chance you might learn something.

Why don't you follow your own advice and read my whole post including my references. If you did that you would see that I made a reference to the CDC website. I posted the Youtube video so people could see for themselves the impact a covid19 vaccine injury had on a young professional athlete. Yes its anecdotal but still interesting to hear their personal experience.

Here is another reference that is essentially a meta analysis of several publications from the international scientific community and not crazy "antivaxers".

Pepe, S., Gregory, A. T., & Denniss, A. R. (2021). Myocarditis, pericarditis and cardiomyopathy after COVID-19 vaccination. Heart, Lung and Circulation, 30(10), 1425–1429. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.hlc.2021.07.011

MunoRN, RN · Nov 14, 2021

4 minutes ago, Sciencedude1 said:

Why don't you follow your own advice and read my whole post including my references. If you did that you would see that I made a reference to the CDC website. I posted the Youtube video so people could see for themselves the impact a covid19 vaccine injury had on a young professional athlete. Yes its anecdotal but still interesting to hear their personal experience.

Here is another reference that is essentially a meta analysis of several publications from the international scientific community and not crazy "antivaxers".

Pepe, S., Gregory, A. T., & Denniss, A. R. (2021). Myocarditis, pericarditis and cardiomyopathy after COVID-19 vaccination. Heart, Lung and Circulation, 30(10), 1425–1429. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.hlc.2021.07.011

That's the same one you posted before, the one that points out the best way to avoid myocarditis and pericarditis is to get vaccinated since you're far more likely have acute myocarditis and pericarditis from a covid infection compared to a covid vaccine.

Sciencedude1, BSN, RN · Nov 14, 2021

On 11/1/2021 at 7:55 PM, heron said:

Nope. That poster flat refused to admit information that would compare the side effects he cited with the incidence and severity of the same conditions occurring as complications of Covid infection. Gerrymandering the information allowed to be as considered is not “reasoned concern” - it’s political propaganda.

I never refused to admit that side effects can occur from the covid19 infection. Yes I understand that the COVID19 can cause long lasting sequelae that is devastating and long lasting. Yes as far as we know acute side effects of MRNA vaccines encoding for spike proteins are rare but they still exist. All I have been saying is that we should respect the patient's autonomy to make health care decisions. Why because the vaccine has risks. It is the reason we ask for consent in regards to any medical procedure.

The scientific community is still working out what effects the s spike protein has on the human body. Most recently scientist in Sweden have conducted an in vitro study were s spike proteins entered the nucleus and inhibited DNA repair (Jiang & Mei, 2021). The protein that was inhibited was the BRAC1 which is responsible for repairing double stranded breaks in DNA (Jiang & Mei, 2021). Mutations in genetic code encoding for the BRCA1 protein have been known to cause cancer. BRCA1 is a tumor suppressor gene (MedlinePlus, 2021). This is the first study that has shown this and needs to be repeated. It is important to know if this is true because the S spike protein could be a potential mutagen-Dr. Mikolaj Raszek. The scientist have proposed a solution to use mRNA encoding for components of the s spike protien instead of the whole s spike protein which is currently produced by the Pfizer and moderna vaccine (Jiang & Mei, 2021).

Jiang, H., & Mei, Y.-F. (2021). SARS–COV–2 spike impairs DNA damage repair and inhibits v(d)j recombination in vitro. Viruses, 13(10), 2056. https://doi.org/10.3390/v13102056

Here is a video of a ph.d talking about the publication:

Here is a video of medical doctor, Dr. Bean talking about the same publication.

I have already taken the risk of getting vaccinated. I however will not be vaccinating my children with potential mutagens considering that young children have mild covid19 infections.

allnurses Guide · Nov 14, 2021

30 minutes ago, Sciencedude1 said:

I have already taken the risk of getting vaccinated. I however will not be vaccinating my children with potential mutagens considering that young children have mild covid19 infections.

If your concern is that spike proteins are potential mutagens, you understand that even a "mild covid19 infection" in a young child would expose them to orders of magnitude more spike proteins and thus result drastically larger exposure to the potential mutagen?

MunoRN, RN · Nov 14, 2021

32 minutes ago, Sciencedude1 said:

I never refused to admit that side effects can occur from the covid19 infection. Yes I understand that the COVID19 can cause long lasting sequelae that is devastating and long lasting. Yes as far as we know acute side effects of MRNA vaccines encoding for spike proteins are rare but they still exist. All I have been saying is that we should respect the patient's autonomy to make health care decisions. Why because the vaccine has risks. It is the reason we ask for consent in regards to any medical procedure.

Again, you're suggesting that the risk vs benefit is equivocal between a covid vaccine and taking your chances with a covid infection. This is simply wildly untrue. And you're right, we should respect a patient's autonomy, spreading misinformation violates that autonomy.

35 minutes ago, Sciencedude1 said:

The scientific community is still working out what effects the s spike protein has on the human body. Most recently scientist in Sweden have conducted an in vitro study were s spike proteins entered the nucleus and inhibited DNA repair (Jiang & Mei, 2021). The protein that was inhibited was the BRAC1 which is responsible for repairing double stranded breaks in DNA (Jiang & Mei, 2021). Mutations in genetic code encoding for the BRCA1 protein have been known to cause cancer. BRCA1 is a tumor suppressor gene (MedlinePlus, 2021). This is the first study that has shown this and needs to be repeated. It is important to know if this is true because the S spike protein could be a potential mutagen-Dr. Mikolaj Raszek. The scientist have proposed a solution to use mRNA encoding for components of the s spike protien instead of the whole s spike protein which is currently produced by the Pfizer and moderna vaccine (Jiang & Mei, 2021).

Jiang, H., & Mei, Y.-F. (2021). SARS–COV–2 spike impairs DNA damage repair and inhibits v(d)j recombination in vitro. Viruses, 13(10), 2056. https://doi.org/10.3390/v13102056

There a few similar en vitro studies, what I think you missed is that if their hypotheses are correct, they've come upon (another) strong argument for getting vaccinated.

The long term effects of a Covid infection don't appear fully explained by just the inflammatory processes triggered by the active viral infection period of a Covid illness, ARDS for instance. That the virus can alter normal cell replication is one of the possible explanations for this.

A virus utilizes a cell's nucleus to replicate, the vaccines don't utilize a virus to work, they use your cells to show your immune system what to watch out for, it's like a police officer going door to door with a picture of a criminal, they don't send the actual criminal to your house.

So if the proposed effect of Covid on DNA replication is correct, it's all the more important to avoid those effects by getting vaccinated since it's the actual virus that causes this issue, the vaccines do not.

You took some liberties with the author's conclusions since they did not claim that vaccines utilizing the full spike protein are potentially more harmful, they pointed out that partial spike proteins might provide a more robust immune response.

45 minutes ago, Sciencedude1 said:

I have already taken the risk of getting vaccinated. I however will not be vaccinating my children with potential mutagens considering that young children have mild covid19 infections.

Covid infection is currently one of the leading causes of death in children, and like adults, sometimes surviving an infection isn't necessarily the best outcome.

The vast majority of kids won't die in a car accident, that doesn't mean it's good parenting to not put a seat belt on them.