Vaccination Mandating

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I'm in NY. Wonder how other NURSES are feeling about mandatory COVID vaccination?

Specializes in Hospice.
6 minutes ago, Guttercat said:

The level of disdain and utter lack of professional civility in your response to reasoned concerns with bona-fide references (not solely a Youtube video) tells me all I need to know.

 

Nope. That poster flat refused to admit information that would compare the side effects he cited with the incidence and severity of the same conditions occurring as complications of Covid infection. Gerrymandering the information allowed to be as considered is not “reasoned concern” - it’s political propaganda.

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Damn. This is up on top again and I read too fast and my brain processed it as "vacation mandating."

I thought we were gonna get to talk about that.

?

 

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
On 10/31/2021 at 6:12 PM, Sciencedude1 said:

"All persons have intrinsic and unconditional worth, and therefore, should have the power to make rational decisions and moral choices, and each should be allowed to exercise his or her capacity for self-determination" (Varkey, 2020)

 

This is so true. I only wish the freedom hating (as evidenced by them depriving others of our freedom) anti vaxxers would embrace  our capacity of self determinization. Instead they gleefully deprive of of OUR right to choose, OUR freedom, and OUR body autonomy. 

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8 hours ago, heron said:

Nope. That poster flat refused to admit information that would compare the side effects he cited with the incidence and severity of the same conditions occurring as complications of Covid infection. Gerrymandering the information allowed to be as considered is not “reasoned concern” - it’s political propaganda.

I like the use of that term.  It pretty well sums it up.  Deliberately drawing lines to cluster things of a type for the purpose of giving the smaller group more weight.

It's a good way to look at how folks filter information.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
9 hours ago, PMFB-RN said:

This is so true. I only wish the freedom hating (as evidenced by them depriving others of our freedom) anti vaxxers would embrace  our capacity of self determinization. Instead they gleefully deprive of of OUR right to choose, OUR freedom, and OUR body autonomy. 

We aren't allowed to physically harm other people during a pandemic ....or ever.  Right now a Supreme Court ruling agrees.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
34 minutes ago, subee said:

We aren't allowed to physically harm other people during a pandemic ....or ever.  Right now a Supreme Court ruling agrees.

Yes, not sure what inspired this reply. Self defense or defense of others is the only moral justification for harming others. 

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
2 hours ago, PMFB-RN said:

Yes, not sure what inspired this reply. Self defense or defense of others is the only moral justification for harming others. 

12 hours ago

  On 10/31/2021 at 7:12 PM, Sciencedude1 said:

"All persons have intrinsic and unconditional worth, and therefore, should have the power to make rational decisions and moral choices, and each should be allowed to exercise his or her capacity for self-determination" (Varkey, 2020)

THIS is what inspired this reply.  The moral imperative to do no harm to others might have precedence over autonomy when these values collide.  Using autonomy as a way to protect anti-vaxxers, IMHO, is the wrong call.

 

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10 hours ago, subee said:

12 hours ago

  On 10/31/2021 at 7:12 PM, Sciencedude1 said:

"All persons have intrinsic and unconditional worth, and therefore, should have the power to make rational decisions and moral choices, and each should be allowed to exercise his or her capacity for self-determination" (Varkey, 2020)

THIS is what inspired this reply.  The moral imperative to do no harm to others might have precedence over autonomy when these values collide.  Using autonomy as a way to protect anti-vaxxers, IMHO, is the wrong call.

 

You really don't need to go that deeply into it.  Adults know that no rights- even constitutional rights- are absolute.

The argument does not pass the straight face test.  The exact argument could be used against all of the mandatory vaccines already in place, but is not.  Nobody with any kind of platform is using this argument to fight mandatory miltary vaccines, school vaccines, etc.

This has nothing to do with autonomy. 

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Specializes in Stepdown . Telemetry.
On 9/17/2021 at 3:39 PM, nursej22 said:

So what is the term for when an employer sets conditions of employment? Marxism, communism, fascist, Nazi like? Capitalism? 

One word: capitalism. employers set the terms,  and you have contract freedom: you are free to coply and free to leave. Enterprises under capitalism tell you what to do, when to do it, and under what conditions. As workers our locus of control absent collective action is to agree with their terms or find employment elsewhere.  

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Specializes in Stepdown . Telemetry.
On 9/19/2021 at 6:41 PM, pclaybrooke said:

If you are vaccinated then why are you even worried about the unvaccinated?

We care about the unvaccinated because we want to end the pandemic!

The reason we still have a pandemic despite an effective vaccine is because there is still a large enough proportion of the population without immunity to allow the virus to perpetuate. 

And YES - its true that the vaxxed are spreading it too, but this will eventually decline and halt once enough of the population has immunity. 

The longer the virus is allowed to replicate and persist, it is more likely that a new variant will emerge that is more infectious than the current, and a higher and higher percentage is needed to reach herd immunity to end the pandemic. 

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I truly believe there are posters that are not nurses, it is hard to imagine a nurse asking why the vaccinated are worried about the unvaccinated. Not meant to offend just it’s a basic scientific fact and the impetus for the mandates.

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On 10/31/2021 at 8:04 PM, Sciencedude1 said:

You are correct that there are risks associated with being infected with COVID19. But there is also therapeutics being developed that reduce viral replication once a person is infected and this treatment can be provided on an outpatient basis. 

Again, fact 97.8% of deaths since June are in unvaccinated.  And again virology 101 the virus moves from pockets of highly unvaccinated areas to others like the delta strain.  Again it appears elitist and arrogant to be unvaxed on so many levels especially poor countries dying for any covid vaccine. 

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