I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
If I said that men get a pass, that is not what I meant. I don't think I said it, but if I did, it is wrong and not what I meant.
Men need to be gentlemen and need to treat with women with the utmost courtesy and respect. Men must not take advantage of women in any way. I am not sexist, misogynistic, or judgmental, not cold or lacking in compassion, not a bigot, not a parrot.
I have raised sons to be highly aware that they are open to rape charges if they misstep. I have raised daughters who know not to be immodest in dress, not to drink to the point where they are not in control of themselves, not pair off and leave friends in a different room, and not go, in the first place. to events where the chance of sexual activity (desired or not) is high.
Your view is that Brock Turner is solely at fault for forcing himself on the raped woman. And he may be.
So you expect that a woman may do the things we've been talking about here - and I don't know if she did them or not (excessive ETOH, showing off her body excessively, going off alone with Turner), but a man must remain totally self-controlled at all times. Sounds like the double standard has been turned around.
People need to just go bowling or to a dance, a movie, somewhere public or semi-public, or have some chaperones to look out for them. Yes chaperones, even college students. They should behave conservatively in all regards, and not lose self-control. And they should keep an eye on their friends, male and female.
OK, laugh at me and flame away.
KK, Old Fashioned Dude
Men don't rape, rapist rape. The idea that men are consistently having to hold themselves back from sexually assaulting a women is rediculus and wrong.
It seems like you think the vast majority of rapes are committed by men upon drunk women at bars? Nearly one in five women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. SEVENTY PERCENT of those assaults will be committed by someone known to the victim. You have a lot to learn about sexual assault... and you owe survivors like myself and the other posters on this board an apology. I have never spoken about this in public before but I refuse to remain silent while you sit here on your high horse and tell me what I should have done differently. Believe me, I've second guessed myself enough for two lifetimes.
Over and over we talk about how women who have done everything right are still victimized, men rape who are in positions we're supposed to be able to trust, children are victimized have no ******* responsibility in how an adult behaves. We talk about how false accusations are all but myth, how victims are punished for coming forward.
How opportunities are created when people KNOW about predators but find themselves powerless to do anything (e.g. the women on campus already knowing to steer clear of that particular student).
We say sex is not rape. Rape is not sex. They don't listen. They don't care. People who still don't know, don't want to know.
I suspect this person (who thinks it's unreasonable for us to expect men to not rape us) believes rape cannot happen within marriage, because marriage is eternal consent. After all, he clearly does not understand that rape is not sex.
Your view is that Brock Turner is solely at fault for forcing himself on the raped woman. And he may be.
I didn't even see this this the first time I read your recent posts.
Are you operating under the mistaken assumption that there are mitigating circumstances when it comes to rape? When a rape verdict is handed down, it's not with the addendum that the judge or jury found that the perpetrator was 85% guility and the victim contributed with 15%. Of course he was solely at fault. (Or he was wrongfully convicted and 100% not at fault, but from what little I know of this case that sounds extremely unlikely). The point is, there is no middle ground. For the umpteenth time, how the victim dressed or how much s/he drank isn't a factor when it comes to culpability of the perpetrator. You seem to have a real problem grasping that concept. You don't get a "discount" or rape carte blanche, just because there's cleavage present.
So you expect that a woman may do the things we've been talking about here - and I don't know if she did them or not (excessive ETOH, showing off her body excessively, going off alone with Turner), but a man must remain totally self-controlled at all times.
First of all. On one side of the equation you have behavior that is legal. On the other (rape), you have an act which is illegal. Why are you treating them the same?
Secondly, does it really take an Herculean effort to refrain from raping???
Sounds like the double standard has been turned around.
To expect people to not commit crimes is hardly a double standard. I expect that both men and women respect the law. It expect them not to rape. It's an equally applied expectation.
What you say is true except for concluding that I think women "ask for it". And my ideas may very well be mainstream, we just have the media bombarding us with the really strange and wrong idea that it's ok to sleep with anyone and everyone.
I am maybe not the best at explaining what I mean, but I have stated, and you failed to see it or understand, that her condition does not excuse his behavior. But in general, rape and the like can be prevented if women behave more sensibly and conservatively and avoid getting drunk, and avoid going to places where they are more likely to run into men who don't respect women, and avoid going off alone with men. They are less likely to end up naked behind garbage dumpsters if they use some old-fashioned restraint, common sense and good judgment.
Holding this view does not make me strange. It actually makes me pretty darned sensible. And it is good advice for women who want to avoid rape and for men who want to avoid rape charges.
The world is haywire. Wanton excess and ridiculous extreme repression, such as you describe, are both wrong. There is a happy medium. I hope you can see it.
No-I can't see it. You are continually blaming women for getting raped. This is 100% the perpetrators fault. Rape can be prevented if perpetrators don't think it is okay to rape. We, as a society, need to stop blaming the victims (male and female) and focus on those who commit the crime. As many others have said, it isn't about sexual attraction; it's about violence and power. We have to create conditions where victims or survivors feel safe to come forward with their stories, so the perps can be punished. We have to stop giving the rapists a pass for their actions. Attitudes like yours allow rape to continue. It's not old fashioned thinking, it's erroneous thinking. I am sickened by reading your posts. You are part of the problem.
The world is grey- had this been a black man he would have been sentenced to a long prison term. Had the victim been a black woman- probably would have not been on the radar at all.
So before we go and get all "the world is black and white" and law this and that... just open up any medical journal or law journal and look at disparities...
You have an agenda to push, I do not fit that narrative, so you dismiss anything that I have said. Which fits into my narrative that we are entering a scary age where trial by the public court of opinion is going to be the norm...
Do NOT make this a ethnicity discussion. I hate when people like you do this. I'm losing an argument so let me those out black men and black women in my favor to win some brownie points. I'm going to assume, the victim is a white woman, the RAPIST is a white man. Stay on topic, this particular discussion isn't about black men or women because none of the people involved seem to be as well. Good bye.
I am maybe not the best at explaining what I mean, but I have stated, and you failed to see it or understand, that her condition does not excuse his behavior. But in general, rape and the like can be prevented if women behave more sensibly and conservatively and avoid getting drunk, and avoid going to places where they are more likely to run into men who don't respect women, and avoid going off alone with men. They are less likely to end up naked behind garbage dumpsters if they use some old-fashioned restraint, common sense and good judgment.
You must realize that this sounds exactly like telling women that it's their job to manage the actions of men. Her "condition does not excuse his behavior," but she somehow bears blame for it none the less because she went to a party and got drunk? Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a person ought to be able to go to a party and get drunk and not be raped, and that any iota of blame placed upon a rape victim is support for the rapist and the idea that men just can't help themselves. Telling women to cover up, avoid strange men, don't drink alcohol, and don't go to parties sounds an awful lot like saying women share responsibility for the actions of men.
Holding this view does not make me strange. It actually makes me pretty darned sensible. And it is good advice for women who want to avoid rape and for men who want to avoid rape charges.
Somehow I've managed to avoid rape charges for more than 30 years despite going to parties with women who've been drinking. I did this by understanding consent, by not raping anyone, and by taking responsibility for my own actions and impulses instead of blaming them on women.
Your view is that Brock Turner is solely at fault for forcing himself on the raped woman. And he may be.
Of course he ******* is. He is solely responsible for his actions, and no one else.
So you expect that a woman may do the things we've been talking about here - and I don't know if she did them or not (excessive ETOH, showing off her body excessively, going off alone with Turner), but a man must remain totally self-controlled at all times. Sounds like the double standard has been turned around.
So, if a woman drinks to excess and "shows off her body," then not raping her is unfair to men? Can you clarify this? Because it sounds... awful. Just grotesquely awful.
People need to just go bowling or to a dance, a movie, somewhere public or semi-public, or have some chaperones to look out for them. Yes chaperones, even college students. They should behave conservatively in all regards, and not lose self-control. And they should keep an eye on their friends, male and female.
Women shouldn't drink, shouldn't be around strange men, shouldn't show their bodies, need chaperones... maybe we could fashion some sort of loose covering so that all we can see is their eyes.
Women shouldn't drink, shouldn't be around strange men, shouldn't show their bodies, need chaperones... maybe we could fashion some sort of loose covering so that all we can see is their eyes.
While the resemblance is clear as day to the majority of us, I doubt that Kooky Korky sees it that way. But I will let him speak for himself.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Of course he ******* is. He is solely responsible for his actions, and no one else.
So, if a woman drinks to excess and "shows off her body," then not raping her is unfair to men? Can you clarify this? Because it sounds... awful. Just grotesquely awful.
Women shouldn't drink, shouldn't be around strange men, shouldn't show their bodies, need chaperones... maybe we could fashion some sort of loose covering so that all we can see is their eyes.
No, wait! Someone already did that. And women in this culture not only get raped; they are blamed for "enticing" the man who raped them.
NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN
791 Posts
I expect both men and women to not rape each other. At all times. Not a ******* double standard.