I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Stanford rape trial and sentence on all nurses. I'm opening up the discussion as I feel it pertains to us in many ways. One as people who may have been victims or know others who have been victims of sexual violence and two as nurses that have taken care of others in this situation, whether directly in ER or a patient suffering from PTSD with other health problems as well.
I applaud the survivor's bravery and her impact statement that has gone public. I hope this will comfort other survivors, but even more I hope this will discourage rape in general. Campus rapes are common and rapes at frats are in the news frequently. Once again a college athlete got off with just a slap on the wrist, although I don't think he counted on all the negative publicity this case has garnered.
What disturbs me the most is the letters of the parents to the judge. The father's don't punish him for 20 minutes of action. Then the mother's letter, who by the way is a nurse for gynecological surgeries and in the past as a pediatric nurse, who had not one iota of empathy for the victim. Her letter simply astonished me. I can't believe as a woman, as a nurse, as a mother of a daughter she had no empathy for the victim! This troubles me the most! I imagine in her years as a nurse she must have taken care of a rape victim and her total lack of empathy for the victim disturbs me greatly!
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Yes, double standard and old-fashioned, as stated in my first post. I still believe there'd have been no Stanford Rape if the young woman had not drunk excessively and gone off alone to a bedroom with this fellow. Did he drag her there? Lace her drink with something? Force drink down her throat? I have not read her account of what happened, so really don't know. I know the judge is catching some backlash for his ridiculously lenient sentence. And I am for my views that are out of step with modern life, as least, as it is portrayed in the media, TV, movies, which still doesn't mean it's a majority view of modern life. And what if it is? We each have to decide where to stand on any given matter. Sure, it's easier to go with the flow, on the surface, at least. But can you live with yourself privately, in your heart, where you know your real feelings?
Was it right for him to take advantage, to rape? No. Of course not.
For men, rape accusations are good things to avoid. I think parents need to teach their sons and classmates/fraternity brothers need to really look out for each other in this area. That is, a duty sober should be monitoring his peers and preventing these 'hookups", as the latest terminology goes. Why does the goal of parties have to be sex? Yeah, I know, hormones.
Better to put morality, ethics, not bringing shame to the family name or to a woman, God for me first.
OK, flame away.
Those who are younger here and did not grow up in such a double standard as we older folks did will have a hard time understanding this view.
I'm probably among the older folks here, and I still have a hard time understanding your viewpoint.
"For men, rape accusations are a good thing to avoid" is a really crappy attitude. Why not instead of teaching your sons to "avoid rape accusations", teach them to respect women -- hell, teach them to respect ALL human beings. Teach them that sex is a beautiful thing, but it requires consent. Without consent, it's rape. It's not about bringing shame to the family name or to a woman, rape is just plain wrong. Any God that I could believe in wouldn't condone rape.
But clearly, you have not read the facts about this rape or this victim that you're judging, accusing, blaming. The victim did not go off to a bedroom with the young "gentleman" in question -- she drank too much, too fast and left the party after which he was found in the act of raping her unconscious body behind a dumpster. Her lady parts was full of pine needles and other debris. It was a vicious, horrific act and you are saying it happened to her because she was immodest, imbibed in too much alcohol and wasn't godly enough.
I want to say more, but I suspect I'd be outside the Terms of Service. I don't know the God you know, the one who would blame such a thing on the victim. And I don't want to know such a God.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
What would be wrong about women being modest? Circumspect? Sensible? Regulating their alcohol intake? Not getting rip roaring wasted with drugs or ETOH? Can people always have our cake and eat it, too?
It is a lie that people, especially women because of the biological facts of life, can have it all all the time, in every case. At least, that is my opinion.
There is much information about rape culture that I didn't think about before reading this thread, so thanks to those who shared this info.
I still think it would be wise for a woman to live more sedately.
Do you have any idea how damaging this attitude is? It's the reason why, when I was all of 8 years old, I never mentioned the fact that I was being inappropriately touched by two men. It's the reason the abuse continued for nearly four years. It's the reason I had a mental breakdown last summer and had to put myself back into intensive counseling because the online support group wasn't enough. And that's just me personally. It doesn't include the millions of other women and girls who have been the victim of predators.
Overall, it's victim blaming. The victim should have done this or done that. NO
What would be wrong about women being modest? Circumspect? Sensible? Regulating their alcohol intake? Not getting rip roaring wasted with drugs or ETOH? Can people always have our cake and eat it, too?
It is a lie that people, especially women because of the biological facts of life, can have it all all the time, in every case. At least, that is my opinion.
There is much information about rape culture that I didn't think about before reading this thread, so thanks to those who shared this info.
I still think it would be wise for a woman to live more sedately.
Even modestly dressed women have been raped. You are buying into the rape culture myth that woman who are attractive and sexy are asking for it. Your solution is we all wear a burka? Guess what even those woman get raped and then are blamed for it by the Muslim system wear woman have no rights whatsoever.
Why should women live more sedately? You have some strange, non mainstream ideas. Perhaps if the rapist hadn't drank so much he wouldn't have raped her, at least that is his excuse!
Yes, double standard and old-fashioned, as stated in my first post.
No, not buying that. There are plenty of nurses at AN who are probably in your same age bracket who do not believe that WOMEN must be held to standards of behavior, dress, and "morality," but MEN get a pass. That's not being "old fashioned," it's being patently sexist, misogynist, and inappropriately judgmental. You are not showing good old fashioned family values, you are displaying bigotry, and parroting exactly what rape apologists are delighted to hear. It shows a coldness and a complete lack of compassion for people who have been victimized by PREDATORS.
I have yet to see a SINGLE response from the "women need to cover up and not get drunk" people that addresses how children, nuns, and women in cultures that cover their bodies completely end up getting raped.
There is a STUNNING number of people who want to talk about how women need to 'cover up better', but not one of them can address my point above.
Any of you who feel this way want to actually try to respond? Because it's been brought up dozens of times on here to no avail.
I have yet to see a SINGLE response from the "women need to cover up and not get drunk" people that addresses how children, nuns, and women in cultures that cover their bodies completely end up getting raped.
There is a STUNNING number of people who want to talk about how women need to 'cover up better', but not one of them can address my point above.
Any of you who feel this way want to actually try to respond? Because it's been brought up dozens of times on here to no avail.
It's that damn feminism! Thinking they can have premarital sex, show cleavage and imbibe libations! How dare they be a female out in public - tempting those nice boys into rape like Eve tempted Adam to eat the darn sin apple! Then they get that secondary gain of getting to call themselves "Victims" and "Survivors" and take pride at being a member of the "Been Raped" club - like it's some kind of Mensa Society!
[Note: Don't take this post seriously it's my assumed thought process behind the "She was asking for it" mentality.]
It's that damn feminism! Thinking they can have premarital sex, show cleavage and imbibe libations! How dare they be a female out in public - tempting those nice boys into rape like Eve tempted Adam to eat the darn sin apple! Then they get that secondary gain of getting to call themselves "Victims" and "Survivors" and take pride at being a member of the "Been Raped" club - like it's some kind of Mensa Society!
[Note: Don't take this post seriously it's my assumed thought process behind the "She was asking for it" mentality.]
You heard it here first, ladies. Just stay away from jazz and liquor!
Even modestly dressed women have been raped. You are buying into the rape culture myth that woman who are attractive and sexy are asking for it. Your solution is we all wear a burka? Guess what even those woman get raped and then are blamed for it by the Muslim system wear woman have no rights whatsoever.
Why should women live more sedately? You have some strange, non mainstream ideas. Perhaps if the rapist hadn't drank so much he wouldn't have raped her, at least that is his excuse!
What you say is true except for concluding that I think women "ask for it". And my ideas may very well be mainstream, we just have the media bombarding us with the really strange and wrong idea that it's ok to sleep with anyone and everyone.
I am maybe not the best at explaining what I mean, but I have stated, and you failed to see it or understand, that her condition does not excuse his behavior. But in general, rape and the like can be prevented if women behave more sensibly and conservatively and avoid getting drunk, and avoid going to places where they are more likely to run into men who don't respect women, and avoid going off alone with men. They are less likely to end up naked behind garbage dumpsters if they use some old-fashioned restraint, common sense and good judgment.
Holding this view does not make me strange. It actually makes me pretty darned sensible. And it is good advice for women who want to avoid rape and for men who want to avoid rape charges.
The world is haywire. Wanton excess and ridiculous extreme repression, such as you describe, are both wrong. There is a happy medium. I hope you can see it.
now, the women's swim team at Stanford is alleging that the school forbid them from writing the judge. They claim Brock is more than a little weird. some would not allow themselves to be alone with him out of distrust/fear d/t his sexually laden/tnlwisted comments.
certainly sounds like he was never properly socialized. Father too, as far as that goes.
. But in general, rape and the like can be prevented if women behave more sensibly and conservatively and avoid getting drunk, and avoid going to places where they are more likely to run into men who don't respect women, and avoid going off alone with men. They are less likely to end up naked behind garbage dumpsters if they use some old-fashioned restraint, common sense and good judgment.
Ok, so here we are again...
Please - use actual words to explain how this works, as I am truly curious how you can make what you said above jive with the questions I'm asking below...
How do children get raped if what you are saying is true?
How do nuns get raped if what you are saying is true?
How do women who wear head to toe coverings get raped if what you are saying is true.
How have women throughout history who were working in the fields, milking cows, sitting at a sewing machine, (the list goes on and on and on) get raped if what you are saying is true?
Please.
Seriously.
Explain how all of the women in those situations should have been more conservative and less drunk in order to avoid their rape.
No, not buying that. There are plenty of nurses at AN who are probably in your same age bracket who do not believe that WOMEN must be held to standards of behavior, dress, and "morality," but MEN get a pass. That's not being "old fashioned," it's being patently sexist, misogynist, and inappropriately judgmental. You are not showing good old fashioned family values, you are displaying bigotry, and parroting exactly what rape apologists are delighted to hear. It shows a coldness and a complete lack of compassion for people who have been victimized by PREDATORS.
If I said that men get a pass, that is not what I meant. I don't think I said it, but if I did, it is wrong and not what I meant.
Men need to be gentlemen and need to treat with women with the utmost courtesy and respect. Men must not take advantage of women in any way. I am not sexist, misogynistic, or judgmental, not cold or lacking in compassion, not a bigot, not a parrot.
I have raised sons to be highly aware that they are open to rape charges if they misstep. I have raised daughters who know not to be immodest in dress, not to drink to the point where they are not in control of themselves, not pair off and leave friends in a different room, and not go, in the first place. to events where the chance of sexual activity (desired or not) is high.
Your view is that Brock Turner is solely at fault for forcing himself on the raped woman. And he may be.
So you expect that a woman may do the things we've been talking about here - and I don't know if she did them or not (excessive ETOH, showing off her body excessively, going off alone with Turner), but a man must remain totally self-controlled at all times. Sounds like the double standard has been turned around.
People need to just go bowling or to a dance, a movie, somewhere public or semi-public, or have some chaperones to look out for them. Yes chaperones, even college students. They should behave conservatively in all regards, and not lose self-control. And they should keep an eye on their friends, male and female.
Ruby Vee, BSN
17 Articles; 14,051 Posts
I'm probably among the older folks here, and I still have a hard time understanding your viewpoint.
"For men, rape accusations are a good thing to avoid" is a really crappy attitude. Why not instead of teaching your sons to "avoid rape accusations", teach them to respect women -- hell, teach them to respect ALL human beings. Teach them that sex is a beautiful thing, but it requires consent. Without consent, it's rape. It's not about bringing shame to the family name or to a woman, rape is just plain wrong. Any God that I could believe in wouldn't condone rape.
But clearly, you have not read the facts about this rape or this victim that you're judging, accusing, blaming. The victim did not go off to a bedroom with the young "gentleman" in question -- she drank too much, too fast and left the party after which he was found in the act of raping her unconscious body behind a dumpster. Her lady parts was full of pine needles and other debris. It was a vicious, horrific act and you are saying it happened to her because she was immodest, imbibed in too much alcohol and wasn't godly enough.
I want to say more, but I suspect I'd be outside the Terms of Service. I don't know the God you know, the one who would blame such a thing on the victim. And I don't want to know such a God.