SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:
This includes ALL degrees not just BSN! LPN, Diploma RN's, ASN's and BSN's they all want and deserve respect. PERIOD!
I agree but what also keeps the issue going is BSN's saying that nursing should have a BSN ONLY entry. I believe statements like that are what make LPN's and ASN's feel threatened to come back and try to protect their choice in degree by claiming that an ASN is more prepared. Obviously both degrees prepare you similarly if both ASN and BSN graduates take and pass the same NCLEX test.
Excellent point!
Now for my 2 cents. I really dont care what anyone thinks of my choice, so much so that I am not even going to endulge any of you why I made the choices I made. However, this issue is going to be on going until we stop treating each other poorly and start respecting each other as RN's and not disrepect for the degree each of us chose to get.
BTW, there are plenty of medical professions that require an ADN only as entry. I am not saying RN should be one of them, I happen to like it the way it is. Allowing different entry level routes keeps this wonderful career open to any and everyone who has the desire to become a nurse, even those that dont have the means (whether its financial, time factors, or other issues) to obtain a BSN right off the bat. Everyone is looking at the down side of having multiple degree entry to being an RN but what about the positive side. First it gives our profession diversity. We have nurses from all walks of life and that keeps our profession real to our patients. Second, if we all had the same level of education then we would all be the same, like robots instead of people. Having diversity keeps us real people and not manufactured SAME degree robots. Third, it keeps the work search competitive. Just think, if everyone had the same degree then what would set me apart from SuzieBSN or SuzieBSN apart from ClaraASN.
Bottom line is if we want respect for our profession then we need to start acting like professionals. When other medical professions hear or read (yes I can guarantee other professions read this board) they lose respect for us because all they see is us bickering over who knows more or who had the better degree. Respect will come to our profession when we start respecting each other within our profession.
Take care all, I wish you all well!
Yes I agree! My point was that it goes both ways. Not just ADN nurses keep it going, I know there are many BSN nurses who do as well. I know that we all want respect for our degrees, LPN, ADN, BSN everyone! I was just trying to point out that i have read posts of some ADN nurses that feel disrespected and want respect but then do not want to give it to anyone else! On the other hand I know that there are many BSN students who are the same way.
We all learn the same nursing skills...i mean no matter if you are ADN or BSN you will still learn how to insert a catherter and well, there arent that many ways to insert a cath...it is not the clinical portion of the degree that make the two degrees different, it is the fact that BSN students are required to usually have the other classes (path and such) as well as the other general ed courses...the theory is that it makes a person a better critical thinker.
I am not saying that I believe this or not bc I belive it rests highly on the individual wether or not they are a good critical thinker but I will say that I am all for education, the more the better. I am NOT saying that less education makes you "bad" nurse.
I am a student with a bachelors of arts in psychology and sociology. I am pursing my nursing degree at a masters level and would be more than honored to be precepted by a seasoned nurse, ADN, BSN, MN whatever! I just want a nurse that is supportive, fair, and that knows their stuff, in fact, unless their badge states their degree then I dont even want to know!
Anyway, I really hope that I can make a difference one patient at a time. That is my goal, everything else is just water under the bridge. :)
That's my main goal and focus on a daily basis.
I won't live with my head in the sand however and not acknowledge there are problems and put on a pretty face to the public and those professionals who visit this site.
We have issues, we discuss them if they are important to us. We ventilate. I am bothered that because of this nursing seems overly negative and full of nothing but bickering to those who visit this site, but that's the way it is I guess.
But yes, my main goal and focus is on the patient first and foremost. I need to take care of myself, body, mind (education be it BSN or journals or inservices) and spirit to continue to be the best that I can be.
I think we're pretty much on the same wavelength here.
I won't live with my head in the sand however and not acknowledge there are problems and put on a pretty face to the public and those professionals who visit this site.
We have issues, we discuss them if they are important to us. We ventilate. I am bothered that because of this nursing seems overly negative and full of nothing but bickering to those who visit this site, but that's the way it is I guess.
But yes, my main goal and focus is on the patient first and foremost. I need to take care of myself, body, mind (education be it BSN or journals or inservices) and spirit to continue to be the best that I can be.
I think we're pretty much on the same wavelength here.
I wholeheartedly 1000% agree! To be honest I didnt even realize when I decided to go back to school for nursing that there was such a negative connotation hanging over the nursing profession till I came to this site. I must admit I have limited exposure to behind the scenes of the nursing profession, I have more exposure as the mother of a patient but the limited exposure I have had gave me a great feeling of pride inside me knowing that I will one day soon be apart of the best profession (IMHO) anyone could ever chose. I have wanted to be a nurse for as long as I remember and to have the opportunity to finally do it brings nothing but pure pleasure to my very soul. I try not to let all the negativity get to me and hope that I can lead by example once I am an RN and show others who are negative about the profession to see the bigger picture. Nurses are great, they do great things and it doesnt matter what degree you have. A great person makes a great nurse, not the degree.
Also, I am all for education as well. I will never say that one should lay dormant with their current degree. I believe we (as the human race) should always seek more knowledge. I just dont think that a degree defines the person. I know many knowledgeable and successful people who have never stepped foot into a college classroom. I also know some that have double BA's who are dumber than doornails (common sense wise). NO amount of education is going to teach a person common sense. Does that make sense? LOL There is that old saying (sometimes overused but I am going to use it again) "You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink". The same goes for education. You get out of it ONLY what you put into it no matter what degree you choose.
I just wish the debate would end and we can all be supportive of what the other chooses to do. Why do we have to judge another for their choices. Gosh how boring would this world be if we all did the same thing.
I just wish the debate would end and we can all be supportive of what the other chooses to do. Why do we have to judge another for their choices. Gosh how boring would this world be if we all did the same thing.
I wish it would be that way too. I actually didn't know there was a debate until I came here either. :rotfl:
And, I think that was part of the whole point the OP was trying to make (Please, correct me if I'm wrong, okie2!). No one should be criticized for their decision. Right or wrong, I know that many feel the entry requirements should be changed, and maybe eventually they will be. But, for now, no one is more of a nurse...or less, because of their degree. I just want to be a really good one, as I know we all do. :)
Here where I live at some jobs there badges do state their degree. But I also agree with you I am graduating in Dec. '05 and I don't care what the degree says I want a good seasoned nurse to precept me, degree doesn't matter.
What I have heard around the grapevine, and from different people that do not even know eachother is that the local hospitals rather higher a ASN graduate from the CC than a BSN graduate at the University colleges because the CC is more hands.
Wherever your CC is I am shocked they charge so little for each credit! Paying $75 for a 3 credit course is unheard of! Where are you from? Here in Connecticut all of the CC & public universities have increased fees for the fall. If you want to obtain a BSN say from Southern CT State Univ. you will pay $6000 per yr. not including fees & books. What you are paying online is probably very similiar to what SCSU charges to attend regular classes which is really a fair amt. considering what the private Univ. charge. But I know going back to college in today's world has gotten to be a burden financially for many and there is so much debt from borrowing it is amazing. I know that when I start the actual Nursing courses at St. Vincent's I'll be paying upwards of $430 or so per credit But what can you do? I look so forward to helping people attain a healthier lifestyle that the $$$ I'll be paying for my education will be well worth it in the end :)
Mine just went up to $66/credit for out-of-county.
(It's now at $36/credit for in-county, and $106 with a $200 minimum for out of state/country.)
I like the DCCCD though. They offer open-enrollment, fast-tracks, online and offine, and hopefully will be hiring more nursing instructors with the increased tuition! Ok, dare to dream.....
We have issues, we discuss them if they are important to us. We ventilate. I am bothered that because of this nursing seems overly negative and full of nothing but bickering to those who visit this site, but that's the way it is I guess.
Yes, but this is a key reason why this board is so important. It gives many of us an anon outlet to vent.
If you go to any other professional site, MD or otherwise, you'd see the same venting, albeit about different issues.
Anybody that takes a cross-section of this site will find lots of venting. But there is more to it than that. We also support each other.
Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
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But what can you do? I look so forward to helping people attain a healthier lifestyle that the $$$ I'll be paying for my education will be well worth it in the end :) .thumb.gif.55aeaafdb61768ab641b1fab52f42961.gif){kind=avatar}
GrnHonu99, RN
1,459 Posts
Yes I agree! My point was that it goes both ways. Not just ADN nurses keep it going, I know there are many BSN nurses who do as well. I know that we all want respect for our degrees, LPN, ADN, BSN everyone! I was just trying to point out that i have read posts of some ADN nurses that feel disrespected and want respect but then do not want to give it to anyone else! On the other hand I know that there are many BSN students who are the same way.
We all learn the same nursing skills...i mean no matter if you are ADN or BSN you will still learn how to insert a catherter and well, there arent that many ways to insert a cath...it is not the clinical portion of the degree that make the two degrees different, it is the fact that BSN students are required to usually have the other classes (path and such) as well as the other general ed courses...the theory is that it makes a person a better critical thinker.
I am not saying that I believe this or not bc I belive it rests highly on the individual wether or not they are a good critical thinker but I will say that I am all for education, the more the better. I am NOT saying that less education makes you "bad" nurse.
I am a student with a bachelors of arts in psychology and sociology. I am pursing my nursing degree at a masters level and would be more than honored to be precepted by a seasoned nurse, ADN, BSN, MN whatever! I just want a nurse that is supportive, fair, and that knows their stuff, in fact, unless their badge states their degree then I dont even want to know!