SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:
When I finish with my nursing pre-reqs and am ready to do clinicals, can I apply to other nursing schools to do my clinicals? My start date is 2010, but I will be finished w/pre-reqs by fall of next year, spring of 2008 at the latest.
Differing schools require differing pre-reqs, but you don't necessarily have to go to the same school as you do your pre-reqs.
The only problem I have of applying to other schools is my daughters school schedule. The other ones are so far away and even though she will be getting her license next fall, I know I will not be able to get her a car and there is no bus service where she goes. I feel like I kind of have to go where I am now. I just dont see how it could work any other way. I know it will work out the way it is supposed to.
Tweety's right, and the more programs you can apply to, the better your chances of getting right in. :)
Yeah, I only applied to one school, but had to apply twice. So, not everyone can apply to multiple schools, but it does increase your chances.
The only problem I have of applying to other schools is my daughters school schedule. The other ones are so far away and even though she will be getting her license next fall, I know I will not be able to get her a car and there is no bus service where she goes. I feel like I kind of have to go where I am now. I just dont see how it could work any other way. I know it will work out the way it is supposed to.
I am fully expecting it to take more than one year, but I know it is possilbe for me to get in, and I am hoping big for that. I know it wont be the end of the world if I dont, so I am not worrying about it.:)
Yeah, I only applied to one school, but had to apply twice. So, not everyone can apply to multiple schools, but it does increase your chances.
Regardless of NCLEX pass rates ( my school has 93%)...I simply cannot afford the University tuitions around here...even at U of MD. I'd love to go to Johns Hopkins but uhhh...I can barely afford my ADN tuition. I don't qualify for much either and the pell grant I got was very small ( and I mean small). I also got a very small ( and again I mean SMALL) state delegate scholarship ( it paid for 1/2 my A+P book..that's how small).When I say I can barely afford it- I mean I can barely afford the tuition + books for ONE class...I am applying for Spring tuition this fall and already am putting $$$ aside for the tuition + books+supplies, etc etc etc. I do plan on appying for the state tuition+ living expenses grant as long as I promise to work for the state for 2 years...BUT I cannot apply for it until I am accepted into the clinical portion AND I won't get any $$$ until that Fall...so for Spring, if I get in, I am on my own. My school does have it's own scholarships but they are not merit based..only need..and they only look at your yearly income - not the gadzillion bills you have to pay with them...so again I was not accepted.
I understand the financial aspect of it all. I do plan on getting my MSN eventually- however, from the looks of it, that will be after I work for awhile and am able to afford more..unless I am granted a nice scholarship eventually.
BTW we don't have a waiting list system either...it's purely GPA.
OK, let me get this straight... you say that you can't afford the 4 year university and can barely afford the books and tuition for the 2 year college. And yet, you see no problem collecting the same pay as someone who went to a 4 year school and made more of a committment to their degree in both time and money than you? WOW! I think that because of the increased committment a 4 year degree requires, there should be fair compensation, and because of the increased cost, it should command more pay than a 2 year degree.
One question, though--for those who are saying that getting your BSN is too expensive, is it mostly because you don't want to take out loans (as opposed to not being able to get together the money via loans)?
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If you are going to earn the same pay either way, why bother to go the extra and get the BSN?? Personally, I am going to have to do the BSN route because the comm college here has a waiting list that is years long. They don't require good GPA (which I do have)... it's first come first serve regardless of grades as long as pre-req's are met. So, more people gravitate to that given it is less time and effort for the same pay. I have never heard of any other field where techs get as much pay as someone with a 4 year degree in the same field, and it should not be that way in nursing either.
For ADNs who claim they do all the same courses... you simply don't. The four year degree programs require stats, A&P 202, Nutrition, more Psychology, Microbiology and several other courses not require in a 2 year degree. So please don't keep saying you should get the same pay for less investment!
OK, let me get this straight... you say that you can't afford the 4 year university and can barely afford the books and tuition for the 2 year college. And yet, you see no problem collecting the same pay as someone who went to a 4 year school and made more of a committment to their degree in both time and money than you? WOW! I think that because of the increased committment a 4 year degree requires, there should be fair compensation, and because of the increased cost, it should command more pay than a 2 year degree.
Well, then when you own a hospital, please feel free to pay extra as you see fit.
There are plenty of professions that require advanced education that do not pay as well as some that require little education. It is financing, needs and demands that shape the pay.
For ADNs who claim they do all the same courses... you simply don't. The four year degree programs require stats, A&P 202, Nutrition, more Psychology, Microbiology and several other courses not require in a 2 year degree. So please don't keep saying you should get the same pay for less investment!
I don't know what ADN program that you are referencing, but MY program required all of those AND MORE.
And please referencing an ADN degree as a 'Two year" degree, when it is not. Most Bachelor's programs require 120 or so semester hours. A standard AA degree (a two year degree) consists of approximately 60-64 semester hours. My ADN program required 100 semester hours - which comes out to over three years by any reasonable calculation. And I know of no ADNs in my home area (4 different Associate's programs) that required less than 91 semester hours.
As one had to require also basic ed BEFORE starting the nursing program, there was no way to even try to double up and finish in less than two years.
It might be nice if you educated yourself about what ADN programs consist of.
People should get paid what they are worth. If you use your higher education to teach and mentor your patients and staff, then you will get paid more. If on the other hand, you get that education and coast with it, you aren't worth much.
I, with my ADN, teach and mentor nurses, educate patients and put in extra time and energy...the BSNs that work with me sometimes do not. Therefore, I frequently get better pay, preferred asignments.
One question, though--for those who are saying that getting your BSN is too expensive, is it mostly because you don't want to take out loans (as opposed to not being able to get together the money via loans)?
The BSN is too expensive not just because of the additional program costs but, because of the income loss.
In my particular case the BSN program in my area was already impacted and I happened to get into the ADN program right before it was impacted. So that was a major factor ...
The BSN would have cost another $10K but, even assuming the BSN program wasn't impacted, I also would have lost at least a year of additional income ... which would amount to $100K.
I live in California where many nurses typically make $100K with one extra day a week of overtime and, some jobs also pay $100K base salary. So the loss of one year's income is substantial.
And, for all practical purposes, it would have actually cost me $210K or two years income with the BSN waiting list. Instead, I'll be getting my ADN-BSN online within the same time period while I'm making bank.
So please don't keep saying you should get the same pay for less investment!
Maybe I did get the same pay with less investment. Do I really care? No. It comes down to a simple cost benefit analysis.
By getting my ADN first I can afford the online BSN and then some. People can complain about it until they're blue in the face, but it isn't going to change anything.
ADN and BSN should get the same pay for less investment, for the exact same job.
(There, i said it)
Actually, there is one hospital group in my area (Kaiser) that does pay $2 extra an hour for BSN's. Although they're the only ones I know of that does.
But, at least from a financial perspective, it still doesn't make any sense to go the BSN route first even with the extra pay.
That extra $2 an hour amounts to a little under $4K a year in extra base salary. But you still have to go to school an 1-2 more years to get your BSN. Where I live in California ... that means losing $100-$200K in extra income over the next two years plus the extra $10K (at least) in direct BSN program costs.
Why lose up to $100-200K in income just to make an extra $4-8K for over the next two years? It makes much more financial sense to go with the ADN first and get your BSN afterward.
Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared..thumb.gif.55aeaafdb61768ab641b1fab52f42961.gif){kind=avatar}
I think that because of the increased committment a 4 year degree requires, there should be fair compensation, and because of the increased cost, it should command more pay than a 2 year degree.
Tweety, BSN, RN
36,267 Posts
Differing schools require differing pre-reqs, but you don't necessarily have to go to the same school as you do your pre-reqs.