SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:
The is nothing unique to Nursing. For quite a while, Bachelor's physical therapy degrees required the educational time equivalent in hours of a five year degree, despite the title "Bachelor's", implying a basic 4 year plan.. Pharmacy degrees have almost always required extra hours, until recent requirements that all be a pharmD.
And frankly what is a bigger ripoff, is that you can, in some areas have done a three year diploma program and may get little to no college credit for it.
I don't bemoan that it required that many hours, I just get tired of people using "two year degree" like it was a regular AA. Much like people that refer to PTs as "just moving people around", not giving credit to them for their deeper skills of knowledge and assessment.
As far as it goes, if I return to my home area in Central Florida, my CC program is now paired with USF and I could get a BSN in 31 semester hours. That would entail getting paid FL wages/dealing with FL MD egos/and dealing with FL heat ...... either my health would suffer (autoimune disease and excess heat do not mix - why my assignments are North except for visiting family in the depthes of Winter) or I would smart off at a twit of an MD/supervisor, with a tiny brain and an ego bigger than Disney. Those make the prospect somewhat undesirable. Though 131 hours is not that much more than 120
However, if I go elsewhere, I lose a lot of my school credits. And once one does stats and chemistry, does one really want to do them again?
Though as a single person, I face that I will need to return, so that when I can no longer lift 350# patients, and have tired of being nice to the egoists, I will have something to stay afloat with.
I would be nice if those cc colleges with such high standards would just invest a few more hours and give BSNs since you are so close. St. Pete college here went has an ADN to BSN track that's a little more than 30 hours, but it's a part-time program that takes about 18 months. To get so many hours and have an associate degree that in the minds of most people is a "two year" degree is a bit aggravating. I agree with your sentiments about the diploma programs as well.
Still, 30 hours equal 10 more courses if they are 3-hour classes, or 7 or so if there are some 4-hour classes in there. Not just a "few more courses". (You didn't say that, but I've seen many times the presumption the BSN is nothing more than a few more courses, so I thought I'd add that two cents in while I'm running off at the mouth. :))
Remember too that what makes sense for one person doesn't necessarily fit everybody elses situation. .
I didn't say that it did. I specifically stated that this was the particular situation for my case in California ... twice. No matter how many times you clarify these things ... people always jump on you for over generalizing, even when you don't. It drives me crazy.
Most of the hospitals here do pay at least a small differential for a BS or BSN, over time it adds up.
I did the ASN to BS route. I wish I had just done the BS right off the bat too. It took me 6 years total to do both the AS and BS by the time I did pre-reqs for both, redid prereqs for the BS because they had changed the requirements and the school I went to for the BS had some additional requirements, and the AS alone took me almost 4 years anyway! In the long run it cost me more money and more time in school to do go the add on route.
Again ... (headline) ... talking about my specific situation in California ...
I'm going to make $100K a year when I graduate. It doesn't make sense to get the BSN right away for an extra two bucks an hour ... or an extra $4K a year when I'd lose $200K in income.
And that extra $2 an hour is only available with one employer. Everybody else pays ADN's and BSN's the same. So the extra $4K a year isn't really much of a factor in most cases.
But, even if it was, at $4K a year it would take me 50 years to make up for the lost $200K in income if I'd gone straight through a BSN program instead of the ADN.
Besides... with all of the online ADN-to-BSN programs that are available now, you can also shop around for degree requirements that best save the most time.
I didn't say that it did. I specifically stated that this was the particular situation for my case in California ... twice. No matter how many times you clarify these things ... people always jump on you for over generalizing, even when you don't. It drives me crazy.
Again ... (headline) ... talking about my specific situation in California ...
I'm going to make $100K a year when I graduate. It doesn't make sense to get the BSN right away for an extra two bucks an hour ... or an extra $4K a year when I'd lose $200K in income.
And that extra $2 an hour is only available with one employer. Everybody else pays ADN's and BSN's the same. So the extra $4K a year isn't really much of a factor in most cases.
But, even if it was, at $4K a year it would take me 50 years to make up for the lost $200K in income if I'd gone straight through a BSN program instead of the ADN.
Besides... with all of the online ADN-to-BSN programs that are available now, you can also shop around for degree requirements that best save the most time.
:typing
I agree with you from a financial point of view, if in California people are getting ADN degrees in two years from start to finish.
Here in Florida it might take an ADN 3 to 4 years to get an ADN, and 4 years to get a BSN, sometimes that has to be factored into the financial equation. (That was my beef above, people taking 3 or more years to get an associates degree that back in a day was designed to be done in two years.)
But even one year's loss of salary to get a BSN might not be worth it for all persons.
I agree with you from a financial point of view, if in California people are getting ADN degrees in two years from start to finish.
Here in Florida it might take an ADN 3 to 4 years to get an ADN, and 4 years to get a BSN, sometimes that has to be factored into the financial equation. (That was my beef above, people taking 3 or more years to get an associates degree that back in a day was designed to be done in two years.)
But even one year's loss of salary to get a BSN might not be worth it for all persons.
It takes 2 years to get the prereqs done and 6 months to get into the ADN program so its realy 4 and 1/2 years here in cali.
I didn't say that it did. I specifically stated that this was the particular situation for my case in California ... twice. No matter how many times you clarify these things ... people always jump on you for over generalizing, even when you don't. It drives me crazy.
Again ... (headline) ... talking about my specific situation in California ...
I'm going to make $100K a year when I graduate. It doesn't make sense to get the BSN right away for an extra two bucks an hour ... or an extra $4K a year when I'd lose $200K in income.
And that extra $2 an hour is only available with one employer. Everybody else pays ADN's and BSN's the same. So the extra $4K a year isn't really much of a factor in most cases.
But, even if it was, at $4K a year it would take me 50 years to make up for the lost $200K in income if I'd gone straight through a BSN program instead of the ADN.
Besides... with all of the online ADN-to-BSN programs that are available now, you can also shop around for degree requirements that best save the most time.
:typing
Your correct people that do the BSN rather than ADN have100k in lost wages.
It takes 2 years to get the prereqs done and 6 months to get into the ADN program so its realy 4 and 1/2 years here in cali.
True ... but, with one of the BSN programs in my area, they wanted you to take more "optional" pre-reqs which weren't required but, you pretty much had to take them to get in ... and they had another year of nursing school itself.
Another program required additional religious courses on top of that (it was a private school) and they would cost yet another $15K on top of the additional $10K the state university would cost (for a total of $25K)
Either way you were looking at 1 to 2 years additional time minimum, or 5.5 to 6.5 years with the BSN ... and a lot of lost income and tuition costs.
So yeah ... the California ADN can take a long time at 4.5 years but, BSN would have taken even longer at 5.5 to 6.5 years minimum, at least for me.
Again, this is just my particular situation, it could be different elsewhere ...
Again, this is just my particular situation, it could be different elsewhere ...
:typing
Thanks for clarifying, that's what I was having trouble wrapping my mind around, is that ADNs take 3-4 years and BSNs take 4 years. I didn't realize BSNs took even longer.
Here in Florida most BSN programs are like all other Bachelor's programs, four years. The first two years are pre-reqs and gen ed core classes (which are several more courses than ADN programs require), then you apply for the remaining two years which is the two years of nursing course, which is the same as the ADN's take (or pretty similar), with the co-req courses like management, patho, community, etc. etc.
What would stretch it out for some students is that they don't get in on the first try. One school here has 60 slots for several hundred that apply.
Bottom line is anyway you look at it a BSN is an investment choice that individuals need to make given their particular situations and their particular goals, the particular environment unique to their location, and can be quite costly.
I'm going to a private school for RN to BSN, paying some out of pocket expenses and taking out some student loans (not much but about $5000 by the time I get done). I'm maxed out salary wise, so when I get my BSN I won't get a dime more, so the investment isn't going to have any financial gain. But that's not what it's about for me. The RN to BSN is a very good option for many people, and the only choice some of us have. There was no ADN program in the town I lived when I became a nurse, and I couldn't move.
I've been accepted into a local BSN program and am waiting to hear from my local community college. Both programs start in January.
I have a Master's in Psychology and can easily complete the BSN route. However, the BSN school appears as though not to have a stellar reputation and $30+k is a lot of money. The ADN program is obviously cheaper and the pace is a little slower (what's the rush?? I've been waiting so long anyway!).
I think I may do the ADN program and then have my employer (hopefully) pay for my RN-BSN. I've already taken so many of the BSN classes in hopes of getting into a BSN program that I wouldn't have much left!
Good luck to everyone. BSN or ADN, we'll all be RN's!!
True ... but, with one of the BSN programs in my area, they wanted you to take more "optional" pre-reqs which weren't required but, you pretty much had to take them to get in ... and they had another year of nursing school itself.
I've taken all these as well because I plan to get my BSN after I get my ADN.
Another program required additional religious courses on top of that (it was a private school) and they would cost yet another $15K on top of the additional $10K the state university would cost (for a total of $25K)
Simply dont go to that school, there trying to milk you.
Either way you were looking at 1 to 2 years additional time minimum, or 5.5 to 6.5 years with the BSN ... and a lot of lost income and tuition costs.
So yeah ... the California ADN can take a long time at 4.5 years but, BSN would have taken even longer at 5.5 to 6.5 years minimum, at least for me.
Again, this is just my particular situation, it could be different elsewhere ...
:typing
Aye, but the only difference in my area between the BSN and ADN are a few different classes, Bio Chem, and general ed classes for BSN which I have done, and Nursing managment classes which you wont use untill many years as a nurse and only then if your in a managment position.
Aye, but the only difference in my area between the BSN and ADN are a few different classes, Bio Chem, and general ed classes for BSN which I have done, and Nursing managment classes which you wont use untill many years as a nurse and only then if your in a managment position.
As a nurse you end up negotiating with management ALL the time - best to know what their game is!
Aye, but the only difference in my area between the BSN and ADN are a few different classes, Bio Chem, and general ed classes for BSN which I have done, and Nursing managment classes which you wont use untill many years as a nurse and only then if your in a managment position.
You're going to be very disappointed when you go for your RN to BSN if your thinking all you're going to have to take are a couple of nursing management classes to complete it. Sorry.
I certainly understand all the great reasons why people do ADN first, I did it myself. But look a little closer at the RN to BSN program at that school. If it truly is just nursing management classes that differentiate the ADN from the BSN that's awesome, which I'd went there because it's taken me 16 courses to complete the degree (of course I had all the wrong co-reqs....funny how accounting, economics, astronomy and such we not needed. LOL).
This is pretty typical of RN-BSN bridge programs in Texas. I only see one management course.
Of course there is also the additional English, History, Fine arts, and other pre-req or general education requirements. But - I only see one management course. Frankly I leared a LOT in patho, assessment and community - a number of things I wondered how I'd practiced for so many years without knowing.
Absolutely I understand why people do the AD to BS - it is what I did. At the time I had 4 young kids and I needed to work FT. I took all the pre-reqs first so that nursing school would be a part time program. It was the only way I could do it at the time. but if I had it to do over agin, I think I would have done the BS the same way...
Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
Tweety, BSN, RN
36,267 Posts
I would be nice if those cc colleges with such high standards would just invest a few more hours and give BSNs since you are so close. St. Pete college here went has an ADN to BSN track that's a little more than 30 hours, but it's a part-time program that takes about 18 months. To get so many hours and have an associate degree that in the minds of most people is a "two year" degree is a bit aggravating. I agree with your sentiments about the diploma programs as well.
Still, 30 hours equal 10 more courses if they are 3-hour classes, or 7 or so if there are some 4-hour classes in there. Not just a "few more courses". (You didn't say that, but I've seen many times the presumption the BSN is nothing more than a few more courses, so I thought I'd add that two cents in while I'm running off at the mouth. :))