sick of ADN vs BSN! like most of us have a choice anyway!

[okie2]

SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.

I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.

I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.

NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah

BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates

major university- 83% my CC - 87%

university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%

university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%

now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!

Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.

I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.

At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.

It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.

Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:

[Sheri257]

This is in light of the fact we also have the Highest home costs in the country.

If you compare our pay ratio to our housing costs I doubt we make out better than nurses in other states.

Well ... I guess I'm always going to have this argument when it comes to living in California.

It's like anywhere else, really. You can go to any town and live in the most expensive areas and potentially lose money by locking yourself into a monster mortgage or, you can move to the cheaper, fast growing areas, lock in a cheap mortgage and cash in on the wage growth.

I have no complaints because I did the latter. I'm extremely happy with the wage growth in my area of California and I think staffing ratios have done a lot to raise nursing wages in this state because it increases demand for nursing positions.

I also believe that the ratio law will increase demand for nursing positions and pay even more next year when the ratios are lowered further ...

:typing

[blueheaven]

Regardless of NCLEX pass rates ( my school has 93%)...I simply cannot afford the University tuitions around here...even at U of MD. I'd love to go to Johns Hopkins but uhhh...I can barely afford my ADN tuition. I don't qualify for much either and the pell grant I got was very small ( and I mean small). I also got a very small ( and again I mean SMALL) state delegate scholarship ( it paid for 1/2 my A+P book..that's how small).When I say I can barely afford it- I mean I can barely afford the tuition + books for ONE class...I am applying for Spring tuition this fall and already am putting $$$ aside for the tuition + books+supplies, etc etc etc. I do plan on appying for the state tuition+ living expenses grant as long as I promise to work for the state for 2 years...BUT I cannot apply for it until I am accepted into the clinical portion AND I won't get any $$$ until that Fall...so for Spring, if I get in, I am on my own. My school does have it's own scholarships but they are not merit based..only need..and they only look at your yearly income - not the gadzillion bills you have to pay with them...so again I was not accepted.

I understand the financial aspect of it all. I do plan on getting my MSN eventually- however, from the looks of it, that will be after I work for awhile and am able to afford more..unless I am granted a nice scholarship eventually.

BTW we don't have a waiting list system either...it's purely GPA.

The GPA thing kinda stinks too. I got my 3 year diploma in nursing in 1978 and I was young, having multiple problems going on in my life, partying a little on the side so my GPA stinks. Never mind that I have gotten excellent evaluations and completed projects and inservices etc. since working. Never mind that I placed in the top 5% when I took my NLN tests and boards. :PPPPP

As for the loan thing, as another poster has written, my credit score is still in the sewer from previous bad decisions made in a previous relationship. It's getting better though :)

My hospital will PAY 100% for me to go back to school but it requires a 2 year obligation after graduation. I am taking it a little at a time and eventually I will get there :)

[rhelna]

I do get tired of the BSN person cutting my RN license down and she only makes $1.00 an hour more. And if hospitals make us go back for the BSN or threaten to cap our pay - it will really infuriate me. My experience of 13 years should account - who will go to bat for all the nurses already out there caring for these pts? We are already on a shortage crunch.....A book person - can sit at the desk - but the nurse with the pts. take their experiences forever in their heart.:heartbeat:mad:

[ERNURSE158]

This is a great thread....I think ADN programs are a wonderfull jumpstart into nursing. Some of the most amazing nurses I work with have ADN's, infact some of them are old Certificate nurses. Good nursing knows No DEGREE...I know some PhD's in Nursing I wouldn't let put me on a monitor, much less do anything else. However the important thing to remember is that for the sake of our profession we must encourage further education in the form of advanced degrees and certificatons. If we want the respect we deserve as independent licensed personell we must prove that we are highly educated independent practioners. so if an ADN is more financially feasable for you now..GREAT! go for it...Because once it says RN behind your name you then qualify for RN to BSN, or RN to MSN programs where you can further your educations. Nursing is not just 2 years, its a lifetime commitment to learning...so KEEP IT UP!

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I do get tired of the BSN person cutting my RN license down and she only makes $1.00 an hour more. And if hospitals make us go back for the BSN or threaten to cap our pay - it will really infuriate me. My experience of 13 years should account - who will go to bat for all the nurses already out there caring for these pts? We are already on a shortage crunch.....A book person - can sit at the desk - but the nurse with the pts. take their experiences forever in their heart.:heartbeat:mad:

So you decide to cut down the BSN by calling us "a book person". Some of us do actually touch patients you know.

Respect is a two-way street.

[noviciate]

With all due respect this sounds so bizarre. Surely this is the only profession that I've encountered that has this much debate over an issue that is relatively simple to an outsider.

It has been logically proven that education pays. Experience is wonderful, but employers give equal leverage to degreed persons. If the latter was not true we wouldn't see the swelling number of applicants to universities each year. Each are hoping for greater career opportunities and the benefits that coincide including increased pay.

What baffles me the most in all the threads I've read on this topic is the need for both sides to explain and in some instances defend their decisions. Some were aware that nursing is what they wanted to do and opted to attend school right away. Others found their way to nursing years later after other careers or life experiences that led them to this path.

Whatever the case, your choice of education is precisely that. Those that opt for an ADN regardless of the circumstances must accept the pros and cons associated with that decision. The same holds true for BSN candidates.

Some employers regard the degree with additional pay, others choose not to. Their failure to do so has helped to perpetuate the us vs. them train of thought that often creeps into threads of this nature.

The lack of consistency on the issue is a larger problem that will need to be addressed at some point. In the meantime, if we hope to see progress in the industry and are able to capitalize on the society's increasing need for our services, we should examine where our energies would be best directed. I doubt if bickering about personal life decisions would rank high on the list.

[mntgrl]

Wow, I am going for a diploma program which has a very good pass rate. I am so thrilled to have a way not only to be able to a great education, but all I have to do is commit to work for the hospital for two years and I don't have any student debt to pay off. Like I wouln't want to work there anyway, ha! Also, I have a son who is going to community college for his ADN. He choose this way because he can do clinicals during the day, I work full time so I don't have that choice. The diploma program that I was accepted to is highly regarded in this area. By completing all the diploma pre reqs. and adding in the BSN pre reqs (at the community college prices)will allow me to be able to concentrate on my Nursing classes. When I have completed my RN it will only take me about 12 months to complete the required classes for my BSN on my employers dime. I will be able to do all of this while continuing to work full time which I need to do as I am the head of household, need the money and benifits for the family. Where there is a will there is a way. I am determined. Also, I do not qualify for the regular student aid, I am not distitute but they say I make too much. However, I was told that if I were to quit working, lose my house, go bankrupt, I would qualify, but that doesn't seem like the right thing to do. Any way I am going to be a nurse and I am so happy about that!!!