SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:
I must have hit a nerve or something? So how many hours have you practiced in your BSN program this year taking care of a patient? As opposed to an ADN program that focuses on clinical care? I don't need statistics, it is a well known fact. ADN's are trained clinically, where BSN's are trained mainly for management. You do not get the same training.
No nerve was hit. Your "facts" are not true here. Both the ADN programs and the BSN programs here have equal number of clinical hours. BSNs learn bed baths, dressings and starting IVs the same as ADNs. As they both take NCLEX RN, both are equally qualified for the bedside. BSN nurses fresh from graduation are in no way shape or form ready for a management position, but are ready for bedside nursing. They take only one course in leadership/management their last semester along with their 140 hours of preceptorship with a nurse on the floor 1:1, no management clinicals.
I pretty much disagree with your entire post, but I shortened it in the quote for brevity. No nerve was hit, but be careful that you generalize your experience everywhere, becuase they are not well known facts. Thanks. :)
Now if you're talking RNs who go back for the BSN, then that's an entirely different experience.
Has anyone noticed this is in the PRE-NURSING forum?
Dearly beloved we are gathered here to not mourn the untimely death of this thread, cause that TIME passed about 200 posts ago. Or is that friends,Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears (keyboards in the 21st century) we need to bury this Caesar NOT TO BEAT IT TO DEATH.
A lot of the disrespect of the profession and one another I see comes more from within than from anyone I've met outside of health care. I tell people I'm a nurse and they are really amazingly impressed. LTC, hospice, med/surg - "nurse" is a magic word to the lay person. They never ask me to defend how much of a nurse I am. Only among other nurses.
Dr Phil calls this "leveling." He says that people like to boost their own ego by doing one of two things:
1. Elevate themselves to be, in their eyes, equal to others OR
2. Bring others around them down
****** (edited out name of other poster) clearly has no idea what she's talking about. BSNs don't learn how to insert an IV... That cracks me up...
Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.
each program has strength and weakness...people choose either based on what appeals best to their personal goals in life and can $$ manage. we welcome all here in the pre-nursing forum.
mod team hears: "my degree is better than your degree"
this song should be sung to the tune of "my dog's better than your dog......my dog's better than yours.....my dog's better 'cause he eats kennel ration......my dog's better than yours"......
I have a question. I want to start working on either an LPN or RN, either thru distance learning or online. The reason is to be with my family. I can schedule clinical experiences through a local facility and preceptors. The only alternative I've seen so far is Deaconess. Are there others?
I am still trying to figure out why this is such a contentious topic. Driven by ego would be my guess? For a profession that promotes "non-judgement" and "teamwork" and the greater good, why do ADN's BSN's students, experienced nurses all go for the proverbial jugular when it comes to this? This entire thread is one major reason why nursing, as a profession, is not taken as seriously as it should be. Some of you may agree with me, some of you may quote this text and point a big "how dare you say nursing is not a serious profession!!!" finger at me. Nevertheless, the vitriol that is typed here towards others is inexcusable. ADN's are not 'better prepared' for the bedside, despite what many ADN's think. Clinical hours are clinical hours and in order for a program to be accredited, there needs to be a certain number of clinical hours. BSN's are not 'smarter' than ADN's despite what many BSN's may think. Nursing jobs in certain high profile medical institutions require BSN. Is that right? Is it wrong? That is not up for debate it is a reality. What it all comes down to is experience. At the bedside, experience is experience. It is a product of time; time that neither newbie nurse from either program has had. Experience, as a wise poster typed previously, is the same for ADN and BSN-pretty much none! As students you are beginning to feel what it is like to function as a nurse, but you are still protected in a way, by someone else's medical license. In other words, ADN students are just as inexperienced as the BSN student. Why would anyone argue that?
SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:
Sometimes taking the easier path at the time isn't really what gets you ahead! ADN programs main goal is to train you to pass the NCLEX fast- BSN programs teach you critical thinking and have much more content rolled into a program rather than just the bare essentials that can get you a degree as fast as possible. I'm sorry that the state you are in has poor passing rates for universities. I come from ND where they just lowered the standards for nursing and it comes as a big dissappointment for our whole state. We required 4 year degrees for all RN's and we didn't have the shortages that you see in other states. Our universities across the state held 91% and higher - and we don't have any 2-year ADN or 3-year diploma programs. If people take pride in their education and want to be the best that they can be by achieving greater goals than they should not be criticized. Only in a mostly woman's profession would we try to put down people with more education. If we want to be seen as professionals and we want the benefits of the great pay that comes with a professional degree than we have to have people who want to put the extra time and effort into achieving a bachelor's degree. ADN's would not be seeing the pay that they are without bachelor's degree nurses in the mix. When reading every one's view on this its repetative over and over on how the ADN is easier - less time consuming and cheaper. Is that how we should view education? Go for the cheapest and easiest way to get through ??? Don't think that if the ADN programs dissappeared that the nurses would dissappear....people go into nursing as a calling, or as a caring way to give back to the community. If all programs were BSN programs it would just be a standard and if you wanted it bad enough as a goal then you would just accomplish it! I sacrificed time and energy for my education and set goals at a young age. I'm sorry if in your late 30's you are just figuring out what to do with your life. But take some advice the easiest and cheapest way isn't always the best route. Kind of like taking the path less traveled scenerio?? I don't want to criticize but it gets old having to defend bachelor's degrees to people who just want an easy way out and that have to ***** and complain about how hard it is to get in and be on a waiting list. If you had to choose a nurse to take care of you or your loved one you would want someone who strives to be the best they can be - the one who has the most training and education and good bedside manner....not the one who took the easy way out because it was cheaper and took less time to complete.
Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP
1,622 Posts
it now qualifies for hospice