SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:
I lived in Hickory North carolina for 13 years, took all of my basics for $30.00 a credit hour at Catawba Valley Community College in Hickory NC, moved to Kentucky near Hazard, Hazard community collge&TI is $109.00 a credit hour, I about crapped, I could not believe how much I was getting ripped off. The difference is the comm. college in NC gets tons of state funding (without lottery funds), Kentucky comm. college hardly gets crap (and they have had a lottery fund for years, supposedly to help schools).
North Carolina finally got their lottery last year or year before. Now hows them apples???:monkeydance:
I live in southern California just paid for next semester a whopping 20.00/hr cost me 200 bucks for my 2 5 credit classes. incidently when I first started it was 14.00/hr and then went up to 25 they just dropped it again this term Wahhoooo
If you already have a bach degree, check out the accelerated program at tamu-cc. You don't have to be in Corpus to do the program and they have clinical locations throughout the state. I don't know how a BA instead of a BS affects your quals: but I know that if you can get in, it's a faster degree then either ADN or standard BSN program: it leads to a BSN in 14 months plus whatever pre-reqs you'd need.
~faith,
Timothy.
Thanks for the tip Tim; any program I go into (if I do this) will require a lot of pre-reqs and some BSN programs actually have fewer. :smilecoffeecup: I'll look into TAMU-CC.
OK, I looked on TAMU CC's website and didn't see any such program. I wouldn't even be able to do their accelerated program; I suppose not everyone read my 'rough time in college' post. :imbar
SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:
I can answer this so easily!!!!
I am an ASN degree holder. It's like an ADN but more science courses in there lol.
I was in BSN school. I was almost done. Decided nopers... I don't need the degree at all. I need to change jobs and so I went to travel nursing. Now I am doing local agency contracts. I am making far more than the BSN and MSN Nurses on staff. I also know I'm free as a bird because I have NEVER left the bedside and trust me, the money is in bedside nursing thru agencies. You can always beat staff pay no matter what!
The upper level degrees are all about teaching and a management position. I view these nurses as career nurses that just either hate working the floors, have hurt their backs or are just burned out. I still love my jobs and love my patients. The hospitals see that because I try hard to make patient,family and Dr. all happy. I also know I am bringing in a high income and this is with a 2 year degree. :balloons:
I am an ASN degree holder. It's like an ADN but more science courses in there lol.
I was in BSN school. I was almost done. Decided nopers... I don't need the degree at all. I need to change jobs and so I went to travel nursing. Now I am doing local agency contracts. I am making far more than the BSN and MSN Nurses on staff. I also know I'm free as a bird because I have NEVER left the bedside and trust me, the money is in bedside nursing thru agencies. You can always beat staff pay no matter what!
The upper level degrees are all about teaching and a management position. I view these nurses as career nurses that just either hate working the floors, have hurt their backs or are just burned out. I still love my jobs and love my patients
Wow. I'm not even sure if there are words for this post.
The upper level degrees are all about teaching and a management position. I view these nurses as career nurses that just either hate working the floors, have hurt their backs or are just burned out. I still love my jobs and love my patients. The hospitals see that because I try hard to make patient,family and Dr. all happy. I also know I am bringing in a high income and this is with a 2 year degree. :balloons:
You know, what kills me when people say things like this, these are usually the first people that get all bent out of shape when someone downgrades the ADN or ASN by saying that all nurses should be BSNs.
Although i will give some credit here, though: it must be very painful to look that far down down one's nose like that though, since by that point, the eyes are crossed.
Going back and getting your BSN is not usually a factor for making more money. It is usually because of wanting a higher education with the ability to advance to management in nursing. ADN programs do better for the NCLEX because you get more bedside care hours than in a BSN program. And most of the questions on the NCLEX are directly influenced on bedside care, not management skills or statistics. Plus, you can work with your ADN and then take online classes for your BSN without difficulty with financial aide available if you wanted to. Getting your BSN doesn't make you a better nurse. It makes you a better manager of nurses. It gives you the skills to manage more than bedside care. Thats the difference in my opinion. And there are plenty of hospitals that will give you tuition reimbursement if you decide to go for your BSN in the future. So what makes the best nurse out there? The one that is an aide before an LPN. The LPN who goes and gets her ADN. The ADN who goes and gets her BSN. Now there's a top rate nurse who knows what its feels like to be treated across the board! And a manager who will understand the back breaking work of an aide to having the management skills as a BSN and everything in between. But in my opinion, an ADN program puts out top notch nurses for bedside care. They get more practical experience than a BSN. I choose a BSN program not to improve my bedside skills but to advance in management. Nothing less, nothing more.
The upper level degrees are all about teaching and a management position. I view these nurses as career nurses that just either hate working the floors, have hurt their backs or are just burned out. I still love my jobs and love my patients. The hospitals see that because I try hard to make patient,family and Dr. all happy. I also know I am bringing in a high income and this is with a 2 year degree. :balloons:
Ever stop to think that maybe these people actually want to be managers or have a passion for teaching? I work with a student that just finished his BSN, he's only 21, and says "I want to the boss, I'm a natural leader" (a bit full of himself, but nonetheless that's his aspiration). Many teachers aren't burned out on the floor, but the opposite, they have a passion for nursing they want to pass on.
Although I must be honest that one of my primary motivations for getting the BSN is that I'm not sure that I can do this for another 20 or 25 years. I don't hate it, but burnout is a possibility.
But I'd like to think that whatever I transition to in the future it would be something I enjoy and have somewhat of a passion for. I'm learning towards education because since I went to dayshift I really enjoy being a preceptor to students.
It's well known that floor nurses who travel or work agency, or even floor nurses that don't travel can make more than BSN and MSN positions. I remember my instructors very clearly saying that some of us will make more money than they did at the time. Money isn't always the primary motivator for advancing a degree and getting away from floor nursing.
Going back and getting your BSN is not usually a factor for making more money. It is usually because of wanting a higher education with the ability to advance to management in nursing. ADN programs do better for the NCLEX because you get more bedside care hours than in a BSN program. And most of the questions on the NCLEX are directly influenced on bedside care, not management skills or statistics. Plus, you can work with your ADN and then take online classes for your BSN without difficulty with financial aide available if you wanted to. Getting your BSN doesn't make you a better nurse. It makes you a better manager of nurses. It gives you the skills to manage more than bedside care. Thats the difference in my opinion. And there are plenty of hospitals that will give you tuition reimbursement if you decide to go for your BSN in the future. So what makes the best nurse out there? The one that is an aide before an LPN. The LPN who goes and gets her ADN. The ADN who goes and gets her BSN. Now there's a top rate nurse who knows what its feels like to be treated across the board! And a manager who will understand the back breaking work of an aide to having the management skills as a BSN and everything in between. But in my opinion, an ADN program puts out top notch nurses for bedside care. They get more practical experience than a BSN. I choose a BSN program not to improve my bedside skills but to advance in management. Nothing less, nothing more.
I love when people generalize and say things like "ADNs do better on NCLEX" or they "have more bedside experience".
Not true, maybe in some cases but you can't make that gerneralzation unless you have national statistics.
Well, if you're sitting here on a computer linked to the internet you do have a choice. You might make a different choice than I because of different priorities and circumstances, but it is still a choice.
I plan to continue on through the MSN level, partly for advancement opportunities, but largely because I really like learning. I can't say that a lot of nursing school stuff is particularly interesting to me - I detest classes in the nursing process and effective communication yada yada yada - but without them I can't become an NP. And at 53 I know I can't work the floor forever and paperwork has never been my long suit. I know how valuable a good MDS coordinator is but you'd have to shoot me before I could do it. Therein lies the the pithy wisdom of the popular song, "Different strokes for different folks. And so on and so on and dooby dooby do."
Oh, and when I am finally an RN I am not going to make a point of differentiating myself from the LPN unless specifically asked. "I'm a nurse" works very well for me, and will work through NP as well.
A lot of the disrespect of the profession and one another I see comes more from within than from anyone I've met outside of health care. I tell people I'm a nurse and they are really amazingly impressed. LTC, hospice, med/surg - "nurse" is a magic word to the lay person. They never ask me to defend how much of a nurse I am. Only among other nurses.
Specializes in ICU, ER, Surgery, Med-Surg, Pediatrics.
I am a BSN that has to laugh whenever this comes up. We are nurses...period! I have practiced in three states. I have worked with LPN's that could run circles around me and I have worked with FNP's that actually learned alittle from me. It all depends on the program. In my area I would precept a CC RN program than the local BSN program. It also depends on what you put into your education. The eagerness to learn and take criticism. I got a BSN because I have a previous BS in Biology and got into the program. Do what you can do. A BS will help you only if you want management, get a Masters or jump into Pharmaceutical Sales. I have yet to get a pay increase just because I have a BSN.
Do what you can do and leave the bickering up to Congress. ;)
I love when people generalize and say things like "ADNs do better on NCLEX" or they "have more bedside experience".
Not true, maybe in some cases but you can't make that gerneralzation unless you have national statistics.
I must have hit a nerve or something? So how many hours have you practiced in your BSN program this year taking care of a patient? As opposed to an ADN program that focuses on clinical care? I don't need statistics, it is a well known fact. ADN's are trained clinically, where BSN's are trained mainly for management. You do not get the same training. ADNs come out of school knowing how to insert an IV for example. I do not know of any BSNs that do. And I have done both programs. Have you? ADN then BSN. I received much more clinical practice while in my ADN program, then in my BSN program. And personally felt that the ADN program assisted me and my fellow classmates in patient care. I had no difficulty in transitioning to become a RN in the field. As opposed to while in the BSN program, I felt that more clinical training would have helped my classmates prepare for what they would encounter once they hit the unit and there fears over taking the NCLEX. Most of the ADN to BSN program RNs felt the very same way. Most didn't need additional clinical training. All we needed was the paper that stated we had management skills required for managerial and supervisory positions. Look up your own statistics. I lived mine. That was enough for me. It is my opinion that while coming out of any nursing program, the real learning begins once you are clinically challenged everyday. Most of us start at the bottom of the ladder. Some reach financial plataou. While others are able to advance only due to a degree without clinical expertise. I know plenty of great managers that where given the opportunity for advancement with their ADN's. I also know alot of great managers that were given the opportunity for advanced placement due their degree only. But what surprised me is that there was many a time they lacked understanding of what was clinically required for their subordinates to "get thru the day." You have to live it to truly understand it. I suppose you will find out oneday. Good luck.
Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
catzy5
1,112 Posts
I live in southern California just paid for next semester a whopping 20.00/hr cost me 200 bucks for my 2 5 credit classes. incidently when I first started it was 14.00/hr and then went up to 25 they just dropped it again this term Wahhoooo