SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:
I don't want to criticize but it gets old having to defend bachelor's degrees to people who just want an easy way out and that have to ***** and complain about how hard it is to get in and be on a waiting list. If you had to choose a nurse to take care of you or your loved one you would want someone who strives to be the best they can be - the one who has the most training and education and good bedside manner....not the one who took the easy way out because it was cheaper and took less time to complete.
You're entitled to your opinion. No need to start with "I don't want to criticize but............." because we all know what comes after that....LOL
I probably said on page one that there was no BSN program in my town. So to pack up and move, work full time while getting an expensive BSN was not the best option. Yes, I chose the inexpensive community college way that got me working as an ADN quicker.
However, in defense of my education and other ADN programs it wasn't easy. It was NLN approved and to date remained the most difficult thing I've ever done. I passed the same NCLEX as the BSN students at the most expensive schools, the very first time.
ADN, while cheaper and quicker, does not make for an easier softer route. Quicker, easier, ADN, does not equate with poor education.
One of the points of this thread is that going the ADN for some of us, not only was the best option, but sometimes the only option. It doesn't mean that we weren't striving to be the best that we could be, or that we are lazy.
As far as whom I'd want taking care of my loved one, how they got their RN probably isn't going to be as much a consideration is how it manisfests in their daily practice - their work ethic, their experience, bedside manner, critical thinking skills, etc. An ADN fits this bill just fine and can take care of me and my loved ones. There are even LPNs that fit the bill and can take care my family any day.
Let me say again, I certainly allow for your opinion and your way of choosing who takes care of your family. I respect that you think BSN the longer more expensive way equates with a better nurse for your loved ones. I disagree with that. It also gets very old having to defend the ADN. Sigh...... :)
I am still trying to figure out why this is such a contentious topic. Driven by ego would be my guess? For a profession that promotes "non-judgement" and "teamwork" and the greater good, why do ADN's BSN's students, experienced nurses all go for the proverbial jugular when it comes to this?
I agree with everything you're saying ... it really is an exercise in ego because, in reality, there's often not much teamwork and non-judgement in nursing. All you have to do is read this board to see that.
What's funny, at least to me, is how impractical all of this is. In California, for example, 70 percent of the nursing programs are ADN's. There's no money to convert these programs to BSN's. The BSN program in my area wasn't even taking any new students back when I applied to nursing schools, and that was nearly four years ago.
In California for example, what's more important? Ratios or BSN's? Because if you required only BSN's then you'd eliminate thousands of new grads in the labor pool each year and the hospitals would have the perfect excuse to roll back the ratio law ... which has tremendously improved working conditions.
Next year ratios are going to go down to 4:1 on med surg, etc. and we are the envy of nurses all over the country because of this.
Why would any California nurse, at least, want to screw that up when they're already making the highest nursing wages and have the best working conditions in the country?
This is why, IMO, the BSN argument is so ridiculous. As an ADN grad who will be pursuing my BSN, I'm not interested in giving the hospitals an excuse to thwart hard won victories ... like the ratio law ... just to feed my ego. There are plenty of other rewards for getting my BSN.
Tweety .....Why are you pursuing you BSN? I am just curious? or nosy??
I originally wanted to take advantage of BSN preferred positions away from the bedside where I currently work. They have jobs in quality, safety, education, case management, and management that are shut out to ADN nurses. I know because I tried to get one of those jobs last year a year into my BSN programs and they said "not until you get your BSN". I want to have options away from the bedside as I age in nursing and can't physically do bedside nursing anymore.
I have since decided I want to teach and am probably going on for the MSN.
I've 15 years of med-surg experience, I'm certified in many things and getting the BSN really isn't going to help me at the bedside or enhance my bedside skills.
So I'm a bit of both. I defend the BSN when people say "it's just a couple more useless courses, good only if you want to go into management". And I staunchly defend my ADN when I read "BSN nurses are better nurses and have better outcomes than ADNs who are just technical nurses".
Why would any California nurse, at least, want to screw that up when they're already making the highest nursing wages and have the best working conditions in the country?
:typing
This is in light of the fact we also have the Highest home costs in the country.
If you compare our pay ratio to our housing costs I doubt we make out better than nurses in other states.
ADN vs. BSN....A nurse is a nurse! However, our ICU department manager has a BSN, has been a nurse for 10 years, but has no clue what is going on in ICU. We have seen her walk past the door of a bleeding patient and dodge codes like the plague. BSN is no better than ADN. What makes the difference is the character of the person/nurse, not the title.
ADN vs. BSN....A nurse is a nurse! However, our ICU department manager has a BSN, has been a nurse for 10 years, but has no clue what is going on in ICU. We have seen her walk past the door of a bleeding patient and dodge codes like the plague. BSN is no better than ADN. What makes the difference is the character of the person/nurse, not the title.
Nurse is a Nurse but more education can't be a bad thing.
Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
Tweety, BSN, RN
36,265 Posts
You're entitled to your opinion. No need to start with "I don't want to criticize but............." because we all know what comes after that....LOL
I probably said on page one that there was no BSN program in my town. So to pack up and move, work full time while getting an expensive BSN was not the best option. Yes, I chose the inexpensive community college way that got me working as an ADN quicker.
However, in defense of my education and other ADN programs it wasn't easy. It was NLN approved and to date remained the most difficult thing I've ever done. I passed the same NCLEX as the BSN students at the most expensive schools, the very first time.
ADN, while cheaper and quicker, does not make for an easier softer route. Quicker, easier, ADN, does not equate with poor education.
One of the points of this thread is that going the ADN for some of us, not only was the best option, but sometimes the only option. It doesn't mean that we weren't striving to be the best that we could be, or that we are lazy.
As far as whom I'd want taking care of my loved one, how they got their RN probably isn't going to be as much a consideration is how it manisfests in their daily practice - their work ethic, their experience, bedside manner, critical thinking skills, etc. An ADN fits this bill just fine and can take care of me and my loved ones. There are even LPNs that fit the bill and can take care my family any day.
Let me say again, I certainly allow for your opinion and your way of choosing who takes care of your family. I respect that you think BSN the longer more expensive way equates with a better nurse for your loved ones. I disagree with that. It also gets very old having to defend the ADN. Sigh...... :)