Riots in Minneapolis

Published

Remember when MLK jr said, "To further the cause of social justice go down the street and rob and loot your neighbors." Me neither, because it didn't happen.

I fully sympathize with the situation in Minneapolis and the death of George Floyd. I believe in due process, but after seeing the video I was sickened by the police officer's actions. He did not need to have his knee of the neck of a man who was handcuffed and held down by two other officers. His excessive force caused the death of Floyd. He was fired and he will be arrested and charged. There will be a court case and evidence will be presented and a verdict delivered.

That's how our system works. It does not work by robbing your neighbors and destroying their livelihoods. There is no cause that is furthered by the looter's actions. There is no traction gained. Their actions haven't changed policy and ensured that justice was done. It was simply a group of people who took the opportunity to steal and destroy for personal gain. The looters are selfish because they took some of the spotlight away from George Floyd and now the nation sees another example people run amok without furthering their agenda or making any positive strides.

If the looters actually cared about Floyd or the social cause they speak of they would take civil action. It worked in the past and it would work again. The Montgomery bus boycott changed policy. But it wasn't easy, it was certainly harder than breaking glass and stealing a tv. And therein lies the problem. It's easy to riot, it's easy to steal and claim "XYZ caused me to loot." It's hard to organize like-minded people and bring about change. It takes time, grit and determination. Think how much better things would be if the thousands of people who looted and rioted got together and voted for change. They could elect someone who could enact policies to prevent something like this from happening again. That's how our system works, not by destroying your own neighborhood.

Specializes in Peds ED.
On 6/1/2020 at 10:28 PM, zbb13 said:

Who pays the price for that? Us.

I mean, that’s one of the points of looting and vandalizing in a political context. No justice? Then we’ll feel some of this cost too.

And saying that people not perpetuating injustice are paying a cost would be a huge misunderstanding of how white privilege works and how capitalism is inextricably connected to it.

I saw somewhere that we should all consider ourselves lucky that Black people only want justice and not revenge. Anything that costs money is replaceable and rebuildable. I have zero space for concern about rioting or looting while Black parents have to coach their kids on how to survive encounters with the police.

Specializes in Peds ED.
On 6/2/2020 at 3:34 PM, GamerNurseRN said:
On 6/2/2020 at 4:26 PM, GamerNurseRN said:

I agree, both parties are terrible....but there has been ONE party basically in charge of education in the inner cities for decades. So take vouchers out of mix for a minute.... why can't they fix the schools? They tell us they are the only ones who can, so why haven't they? They have had absolute power in these blue cities. It's a rhetorical question....they can't because their policies are 50 year failures, and as long as they keep people poor and uneducated, they get votes on the promise of change every 4 years.

School funding is based on property taxes and with white flight cities usually have a much lower tax base that suburbs, with high earners like private colleges tax exempt. School funding and distribution happens on a state level, with the city having some discretion on allocation. And honestly, the schools in my district have terrible overall ratings but when you look closely they have amazing “student improvement” ratings, which suggests that they start with exceptionally disadvantaged kids struggling with poverty, food insecurity, lead contamination, and more....and do a really good job educating them. The school district has been super proactive in providing food and home education resources to students and their families during covid. So I think the way you evaluate schools matters.

Until school funding is need-based and not zip code based schools in poor areas are going to struggle and education is going to be inequitable.

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
On 6/1/2020 at 1:50 PM, cyc0sys said:

The lesson here is simple: A polite society, is an armed society.

People who know the system isn't working for them take responsibility for their own personal safety and security. Much like the armed people who stood guard to protect their businesses during the riots. Remember, the police have no duty to protect anyone (Warren vs the District of Columbia ).

Chauvin has only been charged with third-degree murder (11-13 years) and second-degree manslaughter (3-5 years). They have to prove he intended to kill Floyd in order for the third-degree murder charge to stick. Doubt that will happen.

If it even goes to court, he'll take a plea bargain to manslaughter. The police union lawyers will drag this out until it cools down. Probably won't do more than 5 years, in protected custody away from general population. Under Minnesota Law, he's only required to serve 2/3 of the sentence so it might even be less.

The other 3 co-conspirators haven't been charged with anything. Doubt they'll be prosecuted due to the Doctrine of Qualified Immunity (Harlow v. Fitzgerald).

You don't get justice in court, only law.

People have to sleep. should we expect a young nursing student and working EMT have to take turns standing guard with a firearm ready? in case police break in shooting? toomuchbaloney posted about unfairness. WHY DID THEY ARREST THE BOYFRIEND FOR PROTECTING HIS OWN HOME?

Police have an important and difficult job. How about a plan to retrain those who abuse their power rather than wait until their report is proven false and someone is murdered?

https://www.insider.com/breonna-taylor-shot-dead-louisville-house-police-narcotics-bust-2020-5

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749379716303841

One thing I've found surprising, and really admirable, is how protest organizers themselves are shutting down the looting, vandalism and violence.

The protest organizers never condoned looting/vandalism, but I'm sure that they realized it was distracting from the point they were trying to were trying to make. I've read reports of protest organizers proactively shutting down troublemakers in my own local news, and in news from all over the country. Even though things were more out of control this weekend, it seems like they're more peaceful now.

To me, that really implies that the protesters are taking the higher ground, not attempting to incite riots and mayhem.

The remarkable thing is that it's working.

In my city, the same police force that was shooting rubber bullets is now showing signs of supporting the (much more peaceful) movement; they're kneeling with/hugging protesters, and they haven't made any arrests for broken curfew because the movement has stayed peaceful after dark.

2 hours ago, Numenor said:

There are multiple instances of cops killing every race for literally no reason and walking away free. It's a police brutality issues, not a race issue.

Also tagging @TomPaine

I mean, sure, but....even if it does happen to everybody, it undeniably happens to African Americans at a disproportionately higher rate (according to literally any statistics). Black men are more severely punished for less severe crimes than their white counterparts at just about every stage of the criminal justice system, which is textbook white privilege.

So yes, anyone can experience police brutality, but it's statistically undeniable that black men are far more likely to die because of it. That's why this movement is about race, and not just exclusive to police brutality.

55 minutes ago, AN Admin Team said:

Members have reported this topic.

Several posts have now been removed or edited.

Please do not make this a one-on-one debate littered with insults. As pointed out before, this never ends well.

Please just debate the topic ... not each other.

Thank you.

I kind of miss the days back when we could see who had been edited by admin. It was like a Cone of Shame.

33 minutes ago, adventure_rn said:

One thing I've found surprising, and really admirable, is how protest organizers themselves are shutting down the looting, vandalism and violence.

The protest organizers never condoned looting/vandalism, but I'm sure that they realized it was distracting from the point they were trying to were trying to make. I've read reports of protest organizers proactively shutting down troublemakers in my own local news, and in news from all over the country. Even though things were more out of control this weekend, it seems like they're more peaceful now.

To me, that really implies that the protesters are taking the higher ground, not attempting to incite riots and mayhem.

The remarkable thing is that it's working.

In my city, the same police force that was shooting rubber bullets is now showing signs of supporting the (much more peaceful) movement; they're kneeling with/hugging protesters, and they haven't made any arrests for broken curfew because the movement has stayed peaceful after dark.

Also tagging @TomPaine

I mean, sure, but....even if it does happen to everybody, it undeniably happens to African Americans at a disproportionately higher rate (according to literally any statistics). Black men are more severely punished for less severe crimes than their white counterparts at just about every stage of the criminal justice system, which is textbook white privilege.

So yes, anyone can experience police brutality, but it's statistically undeniable that black men are far more likely to die because of it. That's why this movement is about race, and not just exclusive to police brutality.

Did you see the links I posted? I have addressed this multiple times. Also, black men commit disproportionately more violent crime (according to literally any statistics source) which naturally goes hand in hand with more deaths. This is solely a police brutality issue.

Specializes in ED, psych.
35 minutes ago, adventure_rn said:

I kind of miss the days back when we could see who had been edited by admin. It was like a Cone of Shame.

Let’s just say, people shouldn’t say other’s live under bridges ...

Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.

Stop equating rioters to protestors. They are not the same people. Rioting is opportunistic.

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

I am just publishing the summary

Deaths Due to Use of Lethal Force by Law Enforcement

Introduction: Several high-profile cases in the U.S. have drawn public attention to the use of lethal force by law enforcement (LE), yet research on such fatalities is limited. Using data from a public health surveillance system, this study examined the characteristics and circumstances of theseviolent deaths to inform prevention.

Methods: All fatalities (N¼812) resulting from use of lethal force by on-duty LE from 2009 to 2012 in 17 U.S. states were examined using National Violent Death Reporting System data. Case narratives were coded for additional incident circumstances.

Results: Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however,black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) victims. Fatality rates among military veterans/active duty service members were 1.4 times greater than among their civilian counterparts. Four case subtypes were examined based on themes that emerged in incident narratives: about 22% of cases were mental health related; 18% were suspected “suicide bycop” incidents, with white victims more likely than black or Hispanic victims to die in these circumstances; 14% involved intimate partner violence; and about 6% were unintentional deaths due to LE action. Another 53% of cases were unclassified and did not fall into a coded subtype. Regression analyses identified victim and incident characteristics associated with each case subtype and unclassified cases.

Conclusions: Knowledge about circumstances of deaths due to the use of lethal force can inform the development of prevention strategies, improve risk assessment, and modify LE response to increase the safety of communities and officers and prevent fatalities associated with LE intervention.(Am J Prev Med 2016;51(5S3):S173–S187)&2016

Published by Elsevier Inc. on behalf of American Journal of Preventive Medicine.
https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S0749379716303841?token=358897257C7018AB348DF1F9681771B32CEABAA77B0ECB11FA992C60DF877A7371F80AEE3036B040A15BCA9EA80A039A

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749379716303841

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

Does anyone believe Black people have a natural propensity to violence and criminality?

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 hours ago, Numenor said:

Did you see the links I posted? I have addressed this multiple times. Also, black men commit disproportionately more violent crime (according to literally any statistics source) which naturally goes hand in hand with more deaths. This is solely a police brutality issue.

The oppressed and poverty stricken ALWAYS commit more violent crime and die because of their crimes...suuuurrre. We see this logic presented by racists all the time. They like to ignore the fact that arrested for, charged with, jailed for, and even convicted of x, y or z does not equate to guilty of x, y, or z in black and poor communities.

That misrepresentation goes hand in hand with the notion that if the blacks simply complied with police directives and orders, they wouldn't be so likely to end up hurt or dead. It is plainly evident that such belief is more akin to faith than fact. Just because white men too often get away with violent crimes with little in the way of serious consequence doesn't mean they don't commit violent crimes.

[Cough] Brock Turner [Cough]

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 hours ago, adventure_rn said:

I kind of miss the days back when we could see who had been edited by admin. It was like a Cone of Shame.

You can see when a post had been edited by a moderator, I believe.

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