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Riots in Minneapolis

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emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B

Specializes in Emergency. Has 21 years experience. 2,836 Posts

1 hour ago, rzyzzy said:

So lemme see if I understand your extrapolation here...

Some atf agents acted reprehensibly, therefore the entirety of federal law enforcement is worthless, has done nothing right and should not be trusted at all under any circumstances. Is that your position?

While I agree that there are definite issues that need to be addressed at the federal level, I find a blanket condemnation to be over the top.

toomuchbaloney

Has 44 years experience. 7,897 Posts

And Trump has done an excellent job of criticizing the role, function, judgment, honesty, patriotism...everything really, about any and all American institutions which might ever be in a position to investigate or question his authority or action. He praises them when convenient though. It's almost like he's going through an online Despotism for Dummies course from Moscow.

rzyzzy

386 Posts

2 hours ago, emtb2rn said:

So lemme see if I understand your extrapolation here...

Some atf agents acted reprehensibly, therefore the entirety of federal law enforcement is worthless, has done nothing right and should not be trusted at all under any circumstances. Is that your position?

While I agree that there are definite issues that need to be addressed at the federal level, I find a blanket condemnation to be over the top.

There are thousands of examples of federal ineptitude and headline chasing by federal officials. Martha Stewart being the perfect example of a “head on a stick for a headline”..

Everyone knows about Al Capone and the fact that his conviction was simply a case of the government *wanting* him in a cage and then finding a way to make it happen.

if a federal prosecutor sends out a press release, it’s a pretty rare occasion that when the rest of the story comes out, the public will be impressed with the “Great Job” done by the feebs. They’re unnecessary and they do things to justify their existence. Like whoring for headlines, twisting facts and obscuring exculpatory evidence from the stories they tell the press.

Psychnursehopeful, ASN, RN

Specializes in ICU. Has 1 years experience. 155 Posts

White supremacists who follow an ideology called accelerationism infiltrate these protest stir up the violence then mob mentality sets in. This is a known issue. There are numerous videos of unknown and unaffiliated non black people damaging property then leaving. Some are caught but many aren't. Look it up for yourself.

Psychnursehopeful, ASN, RN

Specializes in ICU. Has 1 years experience. 155 Posts

On 6/3/2020 at 9:04 PM, herring_RN said:

Does anyone believe Black people have a natural propensity to violence and criminality?

Of course they have a natural propensity to violence that's why their ancestors made their homelands a perpetual warzone with God chosen monarchs. Then they went out to conquer new lands. They conquered North and South America, China, India, parts of Africa. Slaughtering many many of the native inhabitants. Then they made their selves superior to all of the other groups...oh wait nevermind that wasn't black people.

emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B

Specializes in Emergency. Has 21 years experience. 2,836 Posts

14 hours ago, rzyzzy said:

There are thousands of examples of federal ineptitude and headline chasing by federal officials. Martha Stewart being the perfect example of a “head on a stick for a headline”..

Everyone knows about Al Capone and the fact that his conviction was simply a case of the government *wanting* him in a cage and then finding a way to make it happen.

if a federal prosecutor sends out a press release, it’s a pretty rare occasion that when the rest of the story comes out, the public will be impressed with the “Great Job” done by the feebs. They’re unnecessary and they do things to justify their existence. Like whoring for headlines, twisting facts and obscuring exculpatory evidence from the stories they tell the press.

Outside of the fact that you seem to be defending capone, does the name “big” bill thompson ring any bells? No? K, he was the mayor of chicago, completely bent & provided protection for capone. Plus, the court system worked differently back in the day, in ways that worked to capone’s advantage. Capone did go to jail a couple of times when busted outside of chicago but it wasn’t until the feds got him on the tax evasion charge that he did significant time.

You imply that capone did nothing wrong & the govmint was just out to get him. Care to explain that? It makes no sense whatsoever.

With respect to your comment about federal prosecutors being unnecessary, how would federal crimes go to trial without them? Based on your comments, I believe there is a deeply personal angle to your feelings on this subject, but I could be wrong.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/01/how-al-capone-got-away-with-murder/267452/

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2005/march/capone_032805

https://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-al-capone

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/capone/caponeaccount.html

Edited by emtb2rn

rzyzzy

386 Posts

43 minutes ago, emtb2rn said:

Outside of the fact that you seem to be defending capone, does the name “big” bill thompson ring any bells? No? K, he was the mayor of chicago, completely bent & provided protection for capone. Plus, the court system worked differently back in the day, in ways that worked to capone’s advantage. Capone did go to jail a couple of times when busted outside of chicago but it wasn’t until the feds got him on the tax evasion charge that he did significant time.

You imply that capone did nothing wrong & the govmint was just out to get him. Care to explain that? It makes no sense whatsoever.

With respect to your comment about federal prosecutors being unnecessary, how would federal crimes go to trial without them? Based on your comments, I believe there is a deeply personal angle to your feelings on this subject, but I could be wrong.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/01/how-al-capone-got-away-with-murder/267452/

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2005/march/capone_032805

https://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-al-capone

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/capone/caponeaccount.html

There’s a deep distrust of federal prosecutors because I’ve read a *lot* of stories about how they behave over many years. Too many stories to count, and over too much time. It’s definitely well documented if you choose to look, I gave you a couple examples - there are lots more.

It’s not “personal” to me because I’m a felon, it’s personal because I’m an American, and I actually believe that law-enforcement doesn’t gain anything by lying. Lying isn’t good behavior, even if the Supreme Court says it’s acceptable.

I believe wholeheartedly in the theory that it’s better to let a hundred guilty men go free than to ruin a single life with unfounded charges, and the feebs don’t actually act that way. The cops in general don’t act that way. That isn’t *my* America, and I don’t accept it as necessary.

NurseBlaq

1,753 Posts

On 6/1/2020 at 6:50 PM, LovingPeds said:

I'm aware of the truth about not owning anything. I addressed it in an earlier post. It's a huge crisis here in my area.

Ten years ago there wasn't a single black family in my neighborhood. Now it's a fairly diverse population. When the first black family moved in, my grandmother who had lived here since the 1940's sat at the window watching the new owner cut his grass. Know what she said? She said "Thank god. They've cut the grass. I'm glad they sold it to someone who looks like they're going to maintain the property." The previous owner was a middle aged white man who did not cut his grass all Summer long despite numerous calls to the city from almost all of his neighbors. This was a woman who lived as a white woman during Jim Crow. Things are changing, it's just at a frustratingly slow pace. The local country club is still pretty much 'white only' because they use economics and a "voting on admission" process that excludes anyone they don't want.

But things will not change faster if you have part of a population who can at any point look at something and "justify" (even if in their own minds) the way things are. If you read the comments on some of these news sites about the protests when they turn violent. In true sickening online anon form people make racist comments about people behaving like "animals" and the "13% doing what they do best". Thousands of them. If you want true change, you have to change public opinion. Every one of us can probably find more people to condemn the looting than to support it and as far as they're concerned the moment people started looting, they lost their support. It's true. Otherwise you wouldn't have little poster things with sayings like the one above pointing out the problem in that thought process.

Has anything worked? Yes. When you pull funding and support from the community level, you see change. When people get off their *** and put their money and time where their mouth is, you see change and I'm not talking walking down a street in a protest. I'm talking getting invested with the children and families in these communities through schools, churches, outreach programs and building them up so that the perception changes for all involved. When the perception changes, the actions will follow.

The perceptions that black people work against daily are unfair and largely untrue for the large majority of the population. However, when you have the violent few overshadowing the peaceful, hardworking, honest, and good people in the media, it's counterproductive to changing the very perception that lets racists justify the horror that is racism.

This is the problem that y'all keep overlooking. The people who are starting the violent protests and killing cops are white. But keep blaming it on the people who are black and live in those neighborhoods. Also, AL just said they've been purposefully stifling black history and furthering white history. You keep going on and on about how you're for the uplifting of black people, then post stereotypical things as if it applies to the whole black community. No ma'am, it applies to the people you see, not us all. Please stop speaking as if you know what our plight is and understand it when clearly you do not.

NurseBlaq

1,753 Posts

On 6/3/2020 at 11:15 PM, areason4stars said:

“But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.”


― Martin Luther King Jr.

The fact that this is still relevant today should tell folks there's a serious problem in this country but nope, they'll just keep labeling black people as problematic in order to avoid having to own/change the REAL problem, white supremacy and it's many injustices.

LovingPeds, MSN, APRN, NP

Specializes in Clinical Pediatrics; Maternal-Child Educator. Has 12 years experience. 107 Posts

58 minutes ago, NurseBlaq said:

This is the problem that y'all keep overlooking. The people who are starting the violent protests and killing cops are white. But keep blaming it on the people who are black and live in those neighborhoods. Also, AL just said they've been purposefully stifling black history and furthering white history. You keep going on and on about how you're for the uplifting of black people, then post stereotypical things as if it applies to the whole black community. No ma'am, it applies to the people you see, not us all. Please stop speaking as if you know what our plight is and understand it when clearly you do not.

If you had read some of my other posts, you would see that I didn't blame the people in those neighborhoods. I said numerous times that the looting and violence was not caused by the people there protesting, but by others who the media was trying to connect as if belonging to those groups even when they did not.

What I have said is that a good majority of people have a perception of the black community as a stereotype. What I said is that those misconceptions need to be broken with education, support of black businesses, and community support. You even highlighted where I said these perceptions were largely untrue for the majority of the black community and the black community gets judged unfairly as a whole on the 'stereotype' perpetuated by only a few.

I don't know the plight of black people. I know only the plight of the area I am in which I also said at some point.

I understand where you are coming from though. Thank you for your input and suggestion.

NurseBlaq

1,753 Posts

32 minutes ago, LovingPeds said:

If you had read some of my other posts, you would see that I didn't blame the people in those neighborhoods. I said numerous times that the looting and violence was not caused by the people there protesting, but by others who the media was trying to connect as if belonging to those groups even when they did not.

What I have said is that a good majority of people have a perception of the black community as a stereotype. What I said is that those misconceptions need to be broken with education, support of black businesses, and community support. You even highlighted where I said these perceptions were largely untrue for the majority of the black community and the black community gets judged unfairly as a whole on the 'stereotype' perpetuated by only a few.

I don't know the plight of black people. I know only the plight of the area I am in which I also said at some point.

I understand where you are coming from though. Thank you for your input and suggestion.

I did read your other posts and they were stereotypical. I grew up in the middle of the inner-city ghetto during the crack epidemic, during predatory lending, during gentrification, etc and what you posted about the citizens in your neighborhood represent the minority, not the overall majority. I'm a prime example of people who made it out "the hood." There are many more.

The schools are tragic on purpose. The streets are tragic on purpose. Empty lots are tragic on purpose. There's a lack of proper nutrition and stores that sell the basic necessities on purpose. Fast foods, convenience stores, loan sharks, liquor stores litter the neighborhood on purpose. When predatory lenders take enough houses and gentrification occurs, THEN the dilapidated schools, streets, parks, etc are fixed. Then, and only then, does the proper stores open in the neighborhood. Not because Black people are poor and uneducated and violent and whatever other stereotype is used, but because it's all set that way by design. And this happens in every major city nationwide.

However, in your posts, you appeared to double down on these stereotypes as though that's all you see. I'm saying that's not all there is and it's incorrect. I've lived in mixed to predominately white neighborhoods most of my adult life, and many of my neighbors are far worse than those in the hood only it's covered up by law enforcement and other neighbors. There are neighbors who should have their homes raided and everyone arrested yet all our other neighbors pretend like they don't see it until someone is murdered or they move then they want to talk about it. Whereas, I've also seen those same neighbors call the police on black families because they have too many cars in the driveway, failing to mention they're having a cookout. It's nonsense like that I can't stand. Police don't show up when they should but when the neighbors are black the whole damn department comes like it's WW3 or something. I've seen this many times. It's trifling.

And you don't know the plight of the neighborhood you're in, you only know a few so you think it applies to many. It does not. That's my point.

herring_RN, ASN, BSN

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical. Has 50 years experience. 3,651 Posts

I have never lived in a ghetto. I have posted this when the topic came up, usually a post asking why Black people don't work to stop violence in their communities. It has been ignored. I wonder if people don't read it because they don't know what to think about Black people working with police?

Many years ago I was invited to meetings in a church. The group had been working with police to make their neighborhood safer. My small contribution was being a friend to young people interested in a nursing or other healthcare career and introducing them to friends in the field. At least three are now RNs. One who was then an LVN is now an NP. I got to attend their graduations.

Quote

Los Angeles to Chicago: What we did to combat murder and violence

... We recognized that screaming for more police, prosecutors and draconian jail sentences wouldn't stop the mayhem. It would take an angered, fearless and proactive community effort. We launched a broad campaign that we called "Get the Killers Off the Streets." We prodded family members, friends and relatives of young men and women gunned down to stand with us in a series of roving neighborhood candlelight vigils and marches. We circulated fliers with a hotline number that witnesses could call to provide information and remain anonymous. We asked callers to provide license plate numbers and car descriptions and, in some cases, to name names.

This information was passed on in confidence to police liaison officials. We knew that getting people, many of whom had information, to shed their fear of retaliation and provide information anonymously was key to making a dent in curbing the violence. In more than a few cases, this resulted in quick arrests.

Next, we worked hard to build community support for a CeaseFire coalition made up of former gang members and community activists. They brokered tenuous truces between warring gang factions. The instant a shooting occurred, the members would gather at the scene to talk with the gang members who called the shots and the violence-prone young men in the area. The aim was to squash any move toward retaliation for the shooting and to tap down rumors of more attacks. We continued to hound city officials to expand the city's gang monitoring and anti-violence network. The network also included former gang members who would attend dialogue sessions with gang members who were assured that their names and faces would not wind up on another police surveillance or profile sheet.

We relentlessly challenged local officials to take a hard look at the deeper reasons for the black-on-black carnage. Despite the pet theories of liberals and conservatives, blacks aren't killing each other because they are violent or crime-prone by nature, or solely because they are poor and oppressed. Or even because they are acting out the obscene and lewd violence they see and hear on TV, films and in gangsta rap lyrics....

... The murder rate in South LA plunged dramatically, and it has stayed down. Just knowing that our efforts spared a family from grieving over the murder of a son or a daughter made all of our efforts worth it. It's worth it in Chicago too...

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-los-angeles-chicago-crime-murder-violence-black-lives-perspec-0709-jm-20150708-story.html

The grandfather in the video was the true leader and hero because he wouldn't give up. When someone was shot after years of peace he called a rally again. Invited "Leaders" and police officers didn't show up.

SOUTH LOS ANGELES: Local activists took to the streets Monday night to raise awareness about a spike in violent crime in their community some blame on an alleged competition between gangs called '100 days of homicides.

... Monday night, dozens of South L.A. community members came together to call for peace.

'I don't know who you are where you feel like you can take somebody's life! Who gave you the authority to just take something that doesn't belong to you?" one man asked.

'Nobody owns any blocks. Nobody owns any streets. So it's not your turf, gang members. It does not belong to you, another man echoed to the crowd...

... Last Saturday, the LAPD reported a man was shot to death on Hoover and 81st streets while a gang-related funeral was going on nearby.

The department's 77th Division says it's aware of the social media rumors and confirms there was a spike in gang shootings this weekend within the South Bureau.

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/07/27/peace-rally-held-in-south-la-as-fears-of-rival-gang-competition-surge-on-social-media/