Okay, I fully expect to be slammed for this. What do all these posts about gaming the system to get early results say about the character of some of the new grads/nurse candidates? One of the prime requisites of being a nurse is good judgement. Boasting about or encouraging fraudulent behavior by using inaccurate or inadequate credit card information to get test results hours or days quicker does not speak well of one's judgement and maturity. Is this what we accept from our colleagues?
It may be harsh but I think this is a matter of integrity. I understand impatience very well, I understand wanting to know if all the work of school paid off, what I don't understand is how easily one can ignore the lessons of integrity and professionalism.
If one can lie to a faceless testing company how one respond when faced with a potential life threatening situation that requires, patience, integrity, and maturity. It's a slippery slope, a little harmless deception here may reveal character issues that come to light when real harm may be caused.
So, slam me, flame me, whatever, or I hope some will agree with me.
In my state it's called uttering and publishing and its up to the business to press charges. A conviction can, and does, carry jail time.
In my state of Texas if you write the check and have enough money to cover the check, you can cancel check and make the payee have to file civil charges against you in court (Small CLaims) and even if you win and get a judgement it is more than likely you will never get paid..
I agree with you, OP, but like TheCommuter, it's not a hill I want to die on.
To me, it's really similar behavior to those classmates of mine back in nursing school who would always ask "Is this gonna be on the test?"- as if the answer to that question would determine whether they needed to pay attention to the lecture or study the material.
But as I stated in another thread, if I let what others are or are not doing bother me, I'd be one ticked off person.
One simple truth in life is that people will do what they think they need to do to get what they think they need.
That's cool. Prostitution is a victimless crime and it's ridiculous that pot isn't legalized in all states too. And shoplifting doesn't hurt Walmart a bit, they've got MILLIONS of dollars, they won't miss a few bucks. Speed limits are more of a suggestion, you don't really need to follow what the sign says either.
I did the the PVT. I used canceled cc and it took me as far as hitting submit but said I couldn't register. I don't feel that I did anything wrong. No one was mentally or physically hurt in the process. In my case it gave me a little bit of hope and my sanity until I was able to get my actual results. Which is what anyone who tries the "trick" wants. BTW I do have patience, integrity, and the maturity needed to respond to ANY life threatening situation in order to save my patients life.
Actually from what I understand, wouldn't it be like fraudulently using a check that you knew was going to bounce? That's against the law still if I'm right.
If you use a check you know will bounce to buy something, you still end up with the thing, which means you've taken something without paying for it. If you use a fake/expired CC# for the PVT you don't end up with anything.* Including knowledge, since we all know the PVT isn't entirely accurate.
If you put a bunch of stuff in your Amazon shopping cart, attempt to pay with a fake or expired CC#, and they give you an error, have you defrauded Amazon, even though they never ship you anything?
I don't really know what the percentages of people are who put in real numbers and then try to charge it back versus using fake numbers - and I doubt anyone else does either (except maybe PV). Disputing a charge is theft of the time and energy of the company. So, those people really are committing fraud, and I'd be okay with them suffering consequences. They're a different group than the others, to me.
* CC#s are derived from the Luhn algorithm, so changing one number on one of your own cards is virtually guaranteed to create a number that would never actually exist (because it would change the checksum at the end). In the off chance that you swapped in a number that still made a valid CC#, you'd still be missing data like the account name, address, zip code, and CVC.
I must be really old...I have no idea what PVT is. All I can say is, I had no choice but to wait the...what was it?...7 or 8 weeks to get my results. You youngsters get no sympathy from me! Oh no, you have to wait 2 whole days?! However do you stand it?!!!
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
* CC#s are derived from the Luhn algorithm, so changing one number on one of your own cards is virtually guaranteed to create a number that would never actually exist (because it would change the checksum at the end). In the off chance that you swapped in a number that still made a valid CC#, you'd still be missing data like the account name, address, zip code, and CVC.
OK, that's hot! Who pulls that kind of info off the top of his/her head?
I agree oldandintheway. There's so many other things I see new nurses do which isn't cool. Unfortunately I've seen older seasoned nurses act in such an unprofessional manner especially in this forum so this is not limited to age. I think it has to do more with morals and as you said integrity.
For the uninitiated (but are curious to know), here's a little "PVT Primer"
Prior to August 2014 (years before, can't recall when it started!), if a recent test-taker attempted to register for another exam (aka "PVT"), if he/she was able to get to a screen that allowed the inputting of financial information....it was a pretty safe bet that the candidate had failed the exam. No monies were lost, in that there was no reason to put in your credit card information at that time. You could wait until you had complete confirmation of the Fail result via Quick Results ($7.95 fee service provided by Pearson Vue) or notice from the State BoN that you had, indeed failed.
If the candidate was refused the ability to input the financial info, and instead got a screen reading something along the lines of "you have an open registration, another exam cannot be scheduled at this time), it was a pretty good indication of having passed. Thing is.....sometimes the candidate got this screen prior to the Quality Assurance review of the exam that finalized the result, and it turned out they had, in fact, failed. Or vice-versa: a candidate would get the "bad CC screen" and a day later the result was determined to be 'pass', in which case...you guessed it....the freaking out hysterically crying individual had a license. And the one who was out celebrating got a failure notice later on.
AFTER late August 2014, the game changed. EVERYONE who now attempts to register for another exam is directed to the Credit Card page. And that's where the fun begins.
Over the last year, people have done all sorts of things to try to beat the system (not get charged but still "figure out" if they "maybe" passed). Initially, they would put in a fake credit card number, or enter the number for a gift card that had no funds on it. Sometimes they would get a card declined notice, indicating the charge attempt had been made. So they assumed that meant failure. EXCEPT....sometimes they would not get the charge attempt notice, they would get the "good pop up", telling them they couldn't register again at this time.
After awhile, people figured out that they needed to use a VALID card number, just change the expiration date so it couldn't be charged, as SOMETIMES a test charge was made against the account WHETHER OR NOT the person had passed the exam. So...you'd think that'd be the end of, right? Nope.
To try to figure out if the card was declined merely because it was expired (rather than truly having failed), people would then enter not only valid account number, but valid expiration date as well. Well GOLLY! Sometimes people would get CHARGED when they AUTHORIZED the charge, can you believe it? And then the foot-stomping would begin.
People upset that "Pearson Vue took my $200, does that mean I failed?!?!?!?" Well....it means you paid $200 for a registration that you may or may not need; if you passed you donated the money to Pearson Vue (disclaimers throughout the registration process warn people that it is non-refundable if, in fact, you don't use the registration). If you failed, you'd need the registration anyway, so not a big deal. Except, of course, to those geniuses who cried "But I didn't want to spend the money NOW!" Yah...except you just did. You can't dispute a charge because you regretted the purchase.
And it still goes on, and on.
People got very comfortable with the idea that all they had to do to "find out" via the 'trick' was to enter an invalid expiration date. But SURPRISE! Now there have been reports of charges going through even WITH an expired date! HOW can this BE? Isn't it ILLEGAL??
Ummm....no. It isn't illegal for a business to charge your VALID credit card account for a fee that you AUTHORIZED. The service is the registration (whether you take the exam isn't on the table just yet, THEY don't cancel the candidate's opportunity to take the test, it's up to the CANDIDATE to schedule one and show up at the appointment. The registration is processed for you so you DID get the service when you authorized the charge.
People don't seem to realize that the expiration date is there to protect the BANK and the BUSINESS with whom you are supposedly doing business. An expired account is a flag that it might not be valid any longer. But IF THAT ACCOUNT is still valid, y'know what? It can be charged. Perfectly legal. The business has no recourse against you if it turns out the account is closed...but if it's open...yessiree, it's owed and payable.
So now we have people stomping around saying it's not fair that the company charged them for the service they requested. Seriously. THEY figure that since they didn't take another EXAM, they should get a refund. Thing is, on at least two screens the candidate must pass in order to submit that money, PV TELLS them that creating a duplicate registration is against their Terms of Service (they don't have to honor anything if the candidate does that) and that as such, NO REFUNDS will be given for those who create duplicate registrations. A registration is only closed (so that a new one can be made, NOT a duplicate) once the results are released to the State BoN. THEN a new registration can be made. But do you think people wait for that? NUH-UH!! Gotta know NOW....gotta have it NOW...and therefore any expenses incurred because of impatience or foolishness are somehow NOT their fault. Because.... you know....they were ANXIOUS!
OK, that's hot! Who pulls that kind of info off the top of his/her head?
I have no idea!
Fun fact: remembering where you learned something is harder than remembering the thing you learned (called source memory). For instance, most people don't know when and where they learned the capital of Florida, or where they were when they learned to use capitol versus capital, or who told them how many stripes are on the flag. You remember the 13 stripes (13 original colonies!), but not the specifics of when you learned them. Brains are silly.
I cannot flame you for lighting this fire and shining some light on a practice that seems... dubious, shall we say? After I figured out what these threads were about, I stopped reading them. Fortunately, we don't get regular posts on how to game the cafeteria vending machines, park in handicapped spaces, and so on and so forth.
I like what Clayton Christiansen concluded when he studied the question of how people he knew as good committed serious violations of business ethics. He said that if you stick to the truth and use the truth, you won't run into sticky ethical issues.
If you use a check you know will bounce to buy something, you still end up with the thing, which means you've taken something without paying for it. If you use a fake/expired CC# for the PVT you don't end up with anything.* Including knowledge, since we all know the PVT isn't entirely accurate.
If you put a bunch of stuff in your Amazon shopping cart, attempt to pay with a fake or expired CC#, and they give you an error, have you defrauded Amazon, even though they never ship you anything?
I don't really know what the percentages of people are who put in real numbers and then try to charge it back versus using fake numbers - and I doubt anyone else does either (except maybe PV). Disputing a charge is theft of the time and energy of the company. So, those people really are committing fraud, and I'd be okay with them suffering consequences. They're a different group than the others, to me.
* CC#s are derived from the Luhn algorithm, so changing one number on one of your own cards is virtually guaranteed to create a number that would never actually exist (because it would change the checksum at the end). In the off chance that you swapped in a number that still made a valid CC#, you'd still be missing data like the account name, address, zip code, and CVC.
Wow. I bow down to your vast store of arcane and fascinating knowledge! Way to spice up a thread, Dogen!
PinayUSA
505 Posts
In my state of Texas if you write the check and have enough money to cover the check, you can cancel check and make the payee have to file civil charges against you in court (Small CLaims) and even if you win and get a judgement it is more than likely you will never get paid..