Now that the Covid 19 vaccine is just around the corner... Will it be mandatory?

NurseBlaq · Dec 2, 2020

2 hours ago, macawake said:

We all have different experiences and they in all likelihood, at least in part, shape our opinions and perception. But isn’t it rather arrogant to say that others whom you don’t agree with, are intentionally failing to understand? How on earth would you know what goes on in someone else’s ??

I’m still having a hard time believing that when faced with the choice of being put in a Nazi death camp or taking a Covid-19 vaccin, that many people would struggle for long with that decision. So I don’t really see the equivalence.

I understand the desire to find out more about a vaccine one is considering taking, than just the initial, incomplete data released by a pharmaceutical company. I think that’s a good idea. But I don’t understand basing decisions regarding ones own health and the health of those around us on emotional rationales and fears. I think this is a decision that is best based on a rational factual basis.

I’ve noticed that several posters as well as people I meet in real life, worry about a potential Covid-19 vaccine simply based on the fact that there are several promising candidates after less than a year. That is much faster than the norm and many seem to believe that equals corners being cut.

Personally I see other possible reasons for the speedy process. One is that never in my lifetime has the collective world been so highly motivated to find a vaccine. This pandemic has hit most parts of the globe really hard. Another reason is that the pharmaceutical companies have had their financial risk significantly decreased. Many wealthy countries have bought and paid for millions of doses in advance, before there even existed a product. Before anyone knew if they would work. That likely made it more appealing for the pharmaceutical companies to forge ahead when they didn’t have to worry about investing R&D money in a product that could end up being a ”dud”.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3226

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-vaccine-nationalism-covid-19-us-germany-gavi/a-54634662

I legit stopped at the first sentence because there are countless articles, books, etc written on that topic. To be ignorant of it in this day and age is willful or due to noncaring, especially in medicine. There are also threads on here full of debate about it. You speak on experience but somehow discount others because it doesn't align with yours. Read your post yourself and let that marinate. I don't care how you feel about what I said. I meant exactly that and your point is.......

rachelalexis23 · Dec 3, 2020

I volunteered for Pfizer's clinical trials. After the first vaccine my arm was sore, the second one I felt a little sick the next day, elevated temp and again sore arm, took some tylenol and was fine the third day. I completely understand why people are hesitant to get the vaccine and I realize everyone is different on how their bodies may react. It should be your choice, especially at this point. Just trying to give a little comfort for those that feel they may end up being required to get it. Hopefully no long term consequences, so far so good. I also found it odd how the efficacy was all of a sudden higher after Moderna said 94%

The Seasoned Nurse, BSN, RN · Dec 3, 2020

On 11/26/2020 at 7:11 PM, Emergent said:

I decided to accept. I've never reacted to any vaccine. I'm in superb health. I was paranoid, but decided to throw caution to the wind.

Me too. It’s just a vaccine at the end of the day. A vaccine with a lot of hype, but still just a vaccine.

phill_rn, MSN, APRN · Dec 3, 2020

6 hours ago, The Seasoned Nurse said:

Me too. It’s just a vaccine at the end of the day. A vaccine with a lot of hype, but still just a vaccine.

Ignorance is bliss ??‍♀️

allnurses Guide · Dec 3, 2020

17 hours ago, Jack Peace said:

You sound like a good little liberal. 1 in 36 kids now have some form of autism in this country. There is evidence aluminum may be a factor. I bet you have taken in alot of aluminum . Anyone who calls somebody a conspiracy theorist because they are skeptical in nature, is not someone that is able to think for themselves. So, go watch CNN or something.

And here is where I quit listening to anything you have to say. You have just made your bias extremely clear.

HiddencatBSN, BSN · Dec 3, 2020

On 11/26/2020 at 11:02 PM, CardiTeleRN said:

Health care is becoming a field of pure intimidation, bullying, and staff have no rights. It's always do what they say or be fired. No conversations to be had, no surveys. Nothing. We are willing to compromise but its a hierarchy of BS.

I agree. It's so awful- like, for example, my employer expects me to maintain my license or I CAN'T WORK. This bullying has to stop.

HiddencatBSN, BSN · Dec 3, 2020

20 hours ago, Jack Peace said:

You sound like a good little liberal. 1 in 36 kids now have some form of autism in this country. There is evidence aluminum may be a factor. I bet you have taken in alot of aluminum . Anyone who calls somebody a conspiracy theorist because they are skeptical in nature, is not someone that is able to think for themselves. So, go watch CNN or something.

Autism diagnosis rates have risen, but that doesn't mean that autism incidence has risen. The label is broader and includes presentations that previously would have been shrugged off as eccentric behavior or given another diagnosis.

Also, the #actuallyautistic community has serious issues with vaccines being continuously and falsely linked to autism. It's ableist and stigmatizing and dismissive of the worth of autistic people. For example:

Quote

This is hard to write. How do you write to someone who despises your very existence and yet has never met you? Someone who would rather risk the lives of their children, and other children, rather than run the risk of having a child like me. Someone with autism. My existence is, apparently, a living purgatory.

https://www.voicesforvaccines.org/actuallyautistic-person-speaks-on-vaccines/

macawake, MSN · Dec 3, 2020

16 hours ago, NurseBlaq said:

I legit stopped at the first sentence because there are countless articles, books, etc written on that topic. To be ignorant of it in this day and age is willful or due to noncaring, especially in medicine. There are also threads on here full of debate about it. You speak on experience but somehow discount others because it doesn't align with yours. Read your post yourself and let that marinate. I don't care how you feel about what I said. I meant exactly that and your point is.......

My point was I was sharing my thoughts and trying to have a conversation. My bad.

NurseBlaq · Dec 3, 2020

29 minutes ago, macawake said:

My point was I was sharing my thoughts and trying to have a conversation. My bad.

You can't have a conversation when you're offending others and/or being intentionally obtuse.

allnurses Guide · Dec 3, 2020

22 hours ago, Jack Peace said:

You sound like a good little liberal. 1 in 36 kids now have some form of autism in this country. There is evidence aluminum may be a factor. I bet you have taken in alot of aluminum . Anyone who calls somebody a conspiracy theorist because they are skeptical in nature, is not someone that is able to think for themselves. So, go watch CNN or something.

I will see if I dig up my EBP guidelines with regard to the prevelance of new Autism dx but gist is. We are not seeing more people with autism but as we begin to understand the nature of the spectrum - Physicians and researchers are just getting better at detecting it.

ohbejoyful · Dec 3, 2020

On 11/28/2020 at 12:55 PM, blondenurse12 said:

I am fully vaccinated and I think of myself as a relatively intelligent individual.

When I have read on this topic, I am concerned. mRNA vaccines have been researched for years but now we have one in a few months. Pfizer's safety data extends only a few months. The had 40,000 participants which I suppose seems like a decent number but when the population of the world is approaching 8 billion, that's a drop in the bucket.

Most worrisome is how Pfizer announced 90% efficacy, then Moderna announced 94% or something, then Pfizer came back a day later saying they were 94.5% effective. This vaccine is all about capitalism and who can make the most money off this.

I am afraid I will be forced to receive it. I have not had children yet. It would be terrible if this vaccine caused some birth defects or who knows what.

Well said. At least half of my coworkers feel this way.

This is a good article written by a credible medical research professor that can explain reasons for not wanting to be first in line to try this vaccine. It’s a personal decision and healthcare workers are divided in how they feel about it and for real reasons.

“Aside from questions of safety that attend any vaccine, there are good reasons to be especially cautious for COVID-19. Some vaccines worsen the consequences of infection rather than protect, a phenomenon called antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). ADE has been observed in previous attempts to develop coronavirus vaccines. To add to the concern, antibodies typical of ADE are present in the blood of some COVID-19 patients. Such concerns are real. As recently as 2016, Dengavxia, intended to protect children from the dengue virus, increased hospitalizations for children who received the vaccine.” See article: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-risks-of-rushing-a-covid-19-vaccine/

For those of you saying it would be unsafe for us not to get the vaccine than ...Why is considered safe for us currently to use appropriate PPE and care for patients and be around covid positive patients but once the vaccine becomes available it is now considered harmful to us and patients to not get the vaccine? Even full time on a covid unit I was told as long as I wore appropriate PPE I was not being exposed. I was pulled from a covid unit to a non covid unit and with a shower and change of clothes told it is safe to now care for non covid patients.

But now if I don’t get a vaccine that is unsafe? I thought appropriate PPE was more than sufficient to protect myself and my patients but now it is not? I don’t think so. PPE is not fool proof but neither is a vaccine, so yes ideally both would be great, but obviously PPE alone is considered sufficient in terms of being considered giving safe care. Uncertainty and desire for widespread use and data prior to getting a brand new type of vaccine for a brand new disease is by far reason enough to wait and continue with the safety protocols that have been deemed appropriate all year.

We do not have to risk our health we are not martyrs. You have to keep yourself safe first, if you do not you can’t help anyone else in the future. We know first hand what can happen with medications and treatments that are new and lack sufficient use and data. Healthcare workers should get the vaccine on a voluntary basis and yes... *so many* will leave and find work elsewhere if employers try to make it mandatory. Stay safe and don’t be a martyr.

Orca, ADN, ASN, RN · Dec 3, 2020

On 12/2/2020 at 7:23 AM, Hoosier_RN said:

I just read on Wikipedia that my statement of them being deliberately infected was incorrect, so I stand educated on that.

Wikipedia can be edited by anyone who pops in. I wouldn't use it as a sole source on anything - and I write for them. Not to say that it has no value, but unless there are reputable source citations attached, I wouldn't trust it 100%.